A Message for all the God-robbers

[shawndell]

I know we need to give of what ever we have including tithes.But what about the poor the hungry the homeless?What about getting out there in the filth and the forgotten to help the sad and lonely souls that nobody cares about? Lets wash some dirty feet.Who knows if it will be the feet of a preacher one day.I heard a story in church about a paster who took some time off from his duties to grow a beard and not bathe so he could sit in front of his church to see who would ask him to come in to hear about Jesus.Now this church wasnt small there was alot of saints but only one asked him to come in.some little old lady that had been going to the church for years.Not one of his saints knew who he was.When you have done it to the least of these you have done it unto me.

[A.W. Bowman]

Yep - we are starting to get the message from a number of folks!

A longer post, or two, to follow when I get back from doing some running about and doing a few previously assigned tasks.

[DividedThigh]

robbing me is a mistake, dangerous maybe, but robbing god could be fatal to your nestegg, lol

[A.W. Bowman]

First, thank you guys who had some nice things to say about my contributions to the community. Now, pray that I am willing (and able) to live up to them.

Even so, I shall now endeavor to spread a little discontent among the brethren.

What I would like to draw everyone's attention to is that discussions of subjects such as tithing, standards, acceptable modes of worship, etc. that often lead to heated disagreements are but symptoms of a much deeper problem within the body of Christ. Namely, what is the real meaning and identification of “the church”, its mission and the roles and responsibilities of its many members?

One of our major problems is that we really don’t know what we are to be about! So, we are reduced to discussing and arguing over non-issues and assigning them heaven and hell consequences according to our particular point of view.

Our primary problem is that we confronted by a clash in religious cultures, ranging from Judaic legalism and Roman/Greek paganism, Christian “blind faith” and Greek rational through, and the war between the Hebrew conceptual worldview and our western abstractions and cultural pragmatism. Simply put, almost everyone recognizes that the church of today has little or no resemblance to the church as it existed and functioned during its first three centuries, even with all of their recorded problems. Even so, few have any idea what is actually “wrong” with today’s church and most us have no clue as to what actually needs to be done – if anything – to correct the ills of our modern-day religious institutions.

Just a few of our more obvious problems:

Most of our doctrines, methods and means of worship, and individual theologies are rooted in Roman paganism, not Judaism, the mother religion. For example, we will follow and celebrate Roman holidays set by Constantine, even to changing the names, dates and times of biblical Holy Days so as to separate Christianity from it Jewish roots., We also know that the church structure is nothing like what was established by Christ or His disciples. But, how does one go about erasing 2000 years of tradition and getting back to the original foundation?

Another major issue: Is going back to the “original” church structure what God really wants to see? If so, why? If not, why not?

[A.W. Bowman]

Church leadership: Who is mandated to exercise spiritual and organizational authority within a congregation? Is the minister the one or more that ministers to (serves) others or is he/she/they the master of the flock and are to be served? If is very difficult to be both the assembly servant and its master at the same time. Where did this one man rule originate, when Jesus instructed the foundation leaders not to set up or engage in such structures (Mark 10:37-45), and we are even given an example of how His “spiritual” organizational structure is to function. (Acts 15). Our problem? We don’t trust God to continue exercising His authority over His children. Besides, we still like being the one in charge – or as close to that seat of power as we can get.

While studies might prove interesting, what are the chances of “studies” moving men away from their traditions, and embracing concepts that have not been followed for almost 2,000 years? Not much! However, there is a rapidly growing home church movement taking place throughout the world, even in the Messianic ranks. We even have it within in the OP ranks as well. Some times we call it a home mission or fellowship meeting, a home Bible study or prayer group, or some other such designation.

Except for a message in tongues and its interpretation, most churches will not allow the actual expression of the spiritual gifts to operate without pastoral approval and oversight. So, we don’t see the gifts in operation very often. Few folks can (or will) actually trust God to direct a church service according to His will and purpose. We generally give lip service to such “turning the service over to the Holy Ghost”, but even that ends with a “edifying” message in tongues, a wild, emotional dance or there, a run around the sanctuary and a weepy group hug at the altar. With that, we head for Denny’s among comments such as “we really had church today” or “It was a wonderful service, you could really feel the Holy Ghost.” A good time was had by most, and nothing of substance was accomplished in improving someone’s walk with God – or improving (spiritually maturing) that relationship.

What is taking place within the church (the entire body of Christ), is a realization that something is not right within the body. The old way of doing things is simply not working any more. New ways are just so much glitz and glamour and have no substance to them either! Many religious conferences have become fashion shows, self indoctrination and/or religious propaganda sessions, not solid Christ centered teaching of the word for the purpose of strengthening and building up of the body unto the good works that have been foreordained for men to walk in. The church has moved away from service to mankind to being the church of the Holy Feel Good. We look, walk and talk holy – but, are we? We can’t seem to get a solid consistence on what true holiness really is!

These are just a few of the symptoms that the church of today exhibits. Not to even suggest going down the path of identifying all of the reasons for our separations, schisms, divisions, and even outright warfare among those who claim to be disciples of Christ and hold high the banner, “By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.” (John 13:35); which we seem to take great delight in making into a lie – even to boasting about it!

[A.W. Bowman]

The church is sick and is in need of a major healing. If not, then our God shall raise up a new, healthy body – and He is even now in the process of doing that. Single issue Christian religions are on their way out, being set aside by our God as one more attempt of man’s self-serving religion. Misplaced priorities are being left to their own purposes and to succeed or fail on the strength of men’s abilities, not on God’s support. Bondage to buildings (building funds, maintenance, modifications, grounds, etc.) that take almost all of the church’s resources in being broken, even while some congregations are actually buying entire shopping malls to house themselves.

So, what is a “church”? What is the purpose of every Christian and local congregation? What are they to be about doing and how are they to accomplish that task(s)? What are the roles, duties and responsibilities of its membership? Where are the personal and spiritual loyalties of a believer to be focused? How does a believer become spiritually mature, and does one measure that maturity? How does one make a disciple for Jesus Christ? What are the “good works” one is to walk in? How does one learn to both live and walk in the Spirit?

These are some of the key issues that the church as a whole should be addressing, teaching, and implementing. Even so, if we wait for our spiritual leaders to undertake such open studies and discussions, we shall have few participants, in deed. Otherwise, such issues will be discussed by like-minded men, behind closed doors – with another organization being formed as a result.

[A.W. Bowman]

My thanks to those of you who has been posting on what you see - that we need to be engaged in. Working among and supporting those within the body that needs assistance, and then also doing the same for those still "in the world". Something like what Jesus did.

What a concept. Anyone think it will fly?

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

CIf is very difficult to be both the assembly servant and its master at the same time.

That is totally not true, consider Jesus our Lord and Savior who came not to be served, but to serve yet Master over all.

[shawndell]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

My thanks to those of you who has been posting on what you see - that we need to be engaged in. Working among and supporting those within the body that needs assistance, and then also doing the same for those still "in the world". Something like what Jesus did.

What a concept. Anyone think it will fly?

Yes I think it will fly!!!! This is some where on the lines with revival that every one is talking about but they dont seem to know how to go about it. The body the church of Jesus is working in differant directions.We need to unify and become one with our selves and let the feet do what its suposed to do and, let the hands do what its to do and so forth and so on.With serious prayer,fasting and God raising up the body he gave and waking us up!! We shall make it!! Let the redeemed of the Lord say so!!!

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

My thanks to those of you who has been posting on what you see - that we need to be engaged in. Working among and supporting those within the body that needs assistance, and then also doing the same for those still "in the world". Something like what Jesus did.

What a concept. Anyone think it will fly?

You took the time to compose your thoughts, I commit to take the time to consider them...tonight and beyond, as prompted to do so.

In survival mode, life is miserable.
In suspicsion mode, there is no chance for prosperity

We need to determine if the lives we purpose to seek spiritual fellowship with, share enough similar desire to walk this walk together.