I understand what you believe and could take your side, from what I was taught for decades, and promote it quite well.
This was actually referencing Miz, sorry.
I don't think you really know what I believe MOW, but that is really not the point. The point is attitude amongst brethren. Or are we brethren?
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I do understand that 3 steppers don't normally come out and literally state that unless someone speaks in tongues, they are going to hell.
Well is it a regular practice of One steppers to run around and tell people they are going to burn in hell, just like that? How about JWs? Are three steppers going to hell because they DON'T believe the One step and thus in your theology have really added to the word of God and even added works to their salvation?
I don't believe so. Do you regularly tell them they are going to hell even if your theology "might" essentially condemn them when the logical conclusion is followed?
If it's the truth, yes.
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However, the logical conclusion of that soteriology, is that a person is NOT saved unless they have spoken in tongues and therefore will not go to heaven because they are none of His and therefore will logically go to hell. That is the logical progression of that particular belief paradigm.
Well This is what I have seen...I have seen a lot of nasty, emotive and pejorative arguments tossed out that essentially pegs 3 steppers of relying on works. Follow the logical conclusion of that. They argue that the three steppers have a false soteriology..so then are three steppers saved?
Yes. If a 1 Stepper argues salvation comes at Faith alone, at Repentance what is the logical conclusion then? The three steppers teach a false doctrine?
Yes. False teachers?
Yes. Pharisees?
Some of them. Legalists?
Some of them as well. What other pejorative terms have we seen? And those terms carry the connotation of condemnation...legalists are not really saved are they?
They are if they have a relationship with god. Pharisees are not really saved, are they? Right?
Even Pharisees are saved if they have a relationship with God.
Do you do that?
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What bothers me about all of this is that a person can truly repent, get baptized, live a sanctified life and not have spoken in tongues and they're not rapture ready.
Why should that bother you?
Because it states that a person's true conversion is of lesser value than completing a formula IMO. That's their view. How about you? Maybe what bothers THEM is that you don't get peopel rapture ready by telling them all they need to do is repent and that's it? Im not saying that is true, but my point is it always works both ways. It is therefore offensive then to try to FORCE someone to condemn others to hell verbally when they feel direct condemnation is God's perogative and that ours is simply to make people aware of what the bible says and let the chips fall where they may. Ultimately MOW YOU as an individual are the SOLE responsibility to get yourself right with God..have faith...and love the Lord...
If Baptism does not save but it is still a commandment for those that have faith and the same with the baptism of the Spirit...that individual has the responsibility to follow through on that...but they will never unless they discover baptism in Jesus name and the baptism of the Spirit for themselves or someone tells them.
When you tell a sinner about Jesus do you walk up and just tell them "you are going to hell"?
Of course not. But if they ask me a point blank question, I'll tell them the truth about ALL sinning and give them an honest uncloaked answer.
If they ask you "do you think I am going to hell?" do you just say "Yes that is my opinion." or do you say "Well let's see what the word says"?
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Conversely, a person can truly repent, receive the HG speaking in tongues, life a sanctified life, and not have been baptized in Jesus; name and they're still not rapture ready.
Againk this is really all irrelevant to HOW we should be treating each other despite doctrinal differences. A lot of 1 Steppers have Roman Catholics pegged as pagans going to hell....and I mean Trinitarian 1 Steppers. I know Catholics that say I am unsaved and not in the body of Christ....boo hooo...that really means nothing to me. It's not necessary to be offended nor is it necessary to use mockery or pejorative terms in addressing others.
At issue really is NOT "them"...at issue is what the bible says.
At issue IS them. It is for THEM that Jesus died. It is ALWAYS about them. They need honest answers to honest questions. From the scriptures. THEY are not "wrong" just because some of us get emotional thinking about someone that repented but THEY say that person is not saved....if that person is saved or not saved our feelings have nothing NOTHING to do with it...it's what the word says.
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So, it appears to me, that the most important thing is NOT that their lives have changed due to a sincere surrender to the Lord, it is the completion of a 3 step paradigm. Their relationship with the Lord is of lesser importance than their completion of the 3 step plan.
So the REAL deal is that these people are "damned" if they do and "damned" if they don't. Who is really getting the short shrift here?
Again, the real deal is that the truth is not based on feelings or emotions or expressions of outrage or pejorative mocking terms or ad hominem...nothing you have said here is materially enough to determine that THEY are wrong and YOU are right.
And you have a right to your opinion and I have a right to disagree with it just like we all do with each other around here.
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