Lets Get Ready to RuMbLE!! HANEY Vs. URSHAN!!!

[Felicity]

I've enjoyed the posts and comments on this thread Carp. Glad you started it.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

My vote is the UPCI should limit the term of any new GS to 6 years. So the organization can move forward.

Nathan Eckstadt

Some would say the organization was moving forward during the entire Urshan administration, most certainly longer than a 6 year period.

I can't agree or disagree, I came into the joint in 1985.

[LaVonne]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

Sorry bud, have to chime in here. Haney just....hmmmm. JUST took a small established church and made it a juggernaut in the community, state, district, and world. His reach JUST has been world-wide,from small churches built overseas, to Bible schools being helped, to JUST millions of dollars given to missions.
His business savvy JUST has made his financial legacy last.
His restoration ministry has JUST helped many who struggle get back on their feet and go back to their callings.
His mentoring ministry has JUST launched hundreds of Apostolic ministries around the globe.
Just....puh-leeeze, you and I would be lucky if we could JUST tie his shoes,
And that goes out to the rest of you arm-chair quarterbacks too...JUST, whatever!

Excellent post!

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I've enjoyed the posts and comments on this thread Carp. Glad you started it.

Well you know, like I said, this was not meant to bring either man into contempt or scorn or to judge the leadership capabilities. I could have started a thread comparing Stanley Chambers to Brother Urshan, but it would have only been relevant to the old timers around here like Sam and OP.

There are no doubt times of crisis on the horizon for the UPC and it is interesting to me to know from their constituency if they are going to be constantly looking back for the leadership of the past to save it.

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Well you know, like I said, this was not meant to bring either man into contempt or scorn or to judge the leadership capabilities. I could have started a thread comparing Stanley Chambers to Brother Urshan, but it would have been relevant to the old timers around here like Sam and OP.

There are no doubt times of crisis on the horizon for the UPC and it is interesting to me to know from their constituency if they are going to be constantly looking back for the leadership of the past to save it.

Paradigm shifts will take place. The problem with organizations is there are so many diverse groups that each goes through it's own paradigm shift. One hopes, and believes, that in the long run a cohesiveness in diversity will be found. God does still raise up leaders according to His good pleasure.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Well you know, like I said, this was not meant to bring either man into contempt or scorn or to judge the leadership capabilities. I could have started a thread comparing Stanley Chambers to Brother Urshan, but it would have been relevant to the old timers around here like Sam and OP.

There are no doubt times of crisis on the horizon for the UPC and it is interesting to me to know from their constituency if they are going to be constantly looking back for the leadership of the past to save it.

How much you look back sometimes depends on your age and it seems as if at present the old guys are the majority. However you define "old".

The fact is the UPC is never going to be what it "was". It's impossible! It's finished if it remains imbedded in its present. It must go forward and should and will no doubt look quite different 12 years from now than it does today.

To me it makes no difference that Bro. Haney is no Bro. Urshan. Bro. Haney needs to be himself and no doubt is although I think perhaps he wears the GS shoes a little less comfortably than did Bro. Urshan. The man is a proven leader with his own strengths and accompanying weaknesses.

Every man has them.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Some would say the organization was moving forward during the entire Urshan administration, most certainly longer than a 6 year period.

I can't agree or disagree, I came into the joint in 1985.

I didn't mine Nathan Urshan for the years he was the GS. Today it needs to be limited to 6 years.....

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman
Sorry bud, have to chime in here. Haney just....hmmmm. JUST took a small established church and made it a juggernaut in the community, state, district, and world. His reach JUST has been world-wide,from small churches built overseas, to Bible schools being helped, to JUST millions of dollars given to missions.
His business savvy JUST has made his financial legacy last.
His restoration ministry has JUST helped many who struggle get back on their feet and go back to their callings.
His mentoring ministry has JUST launched hundreds of Apostolic ministries around the globe.
Just....puh-leeeze, you and I would be lucky if we could JUST tie his shoes,
And that goes out to the rest of you arm-chair quarterbacks too...JUST, whatever!

Originally Posted by CareyM

Excellent post!

The comment isn't about us tying Bro. Haney's shoes.

It was about Bro. Urshan and Bro. Haney.

I understand what Bro. Haney accomplished at his church.

Has that translated in the same growth and vision for the entire UPCI?

You answer the question in your own mind?

The best salesman usually becomes the sales manager.

In my career I have see that happen 7 times.

Each time the sales manager would then be out the door within the year.

I turned down the position twice.

Being the best at what you do...."Like pastoring a church".

Does not translate into success as a leader on a larger scale.

I have no disrespect.

The book is still open....

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

I didn't mine Nathan Urshan for the years he was the GS. Today it needs to be limited to 6 years.....

Well, that is kind of what I am getting at, how would have Brother Urshan dealt with the issues facing the UPC today? Were these same issues facing the UPC 10 years ago, but we never heard about them because of the way they were dealt with by leadership?

I dunno. If 1992 is any indication, it may be a good thing for the UPC to move strongly, quickly, decisively, and without reservation to the ultraconservative side of the spectrum.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Well, that is kind of what I am getting at, how would have Brother Urshan dealt with the issues facing the UPC today? Were these same issues facing the UPC 10 years ago, but we never heard about them because of the way they were dealt with by leadership?

I dunno. If 1992 is any indication, it may be a good thing for the UPC to move strongly, quickly, decisively, and without reservation to the ultraconservative side of the spectrum.

Move to the ultraconservative side. All the leadership needs is a chair to sit down. They are already on the Ultra-Con front lawn.

It's many of the good men out in the crowd that are sick of talking about things 15 and 30 years later......