Saved WithOut The Holy Ghost ? - Page 5

TRFrance · #41 12-13-2007, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcie

I believe that the baptism of the Holy Ghost is the gift, the experience. A baptism that comes from God (who is Father, Son, Spirit). Something we have no control over. He is the one who gives it.

I am not missing the point. I used to believe like you do. I've said my peace and really don't think its worth the debate.

Well, this was a discussion of a biblical/doctrinal topic. You gave your opinion, and I simply asked you to support it with scriptures if you could. Rather that doing so, you choose to say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcie

I've said my peace and really don't think its worth the debate.

Thats fine; not a problem at all. But what's the purpose of chiming in on a biblically based discussion if you don't feel like bothering to show the scriptures that support how you feel on the topic?

Anyway, suit yourself.

Blessings...

.

SDG · #42 12-13-2007, 12:49 PM

This one is even easier:

Quote:

These are all the same thing. Otherwise show me, Darcy, from scripture, how the baptism of the Holy Ghost is a separate experience from receiving the Holy Ghost.

John 20:22

And when he had said this, he(A) breathed on them and said to them, (B) "Receive the Holy Spirit."

Darcie · #43 12-13-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Well, this was a discussion of a biblical/doctrinal topic. You gave your opinion, and I simply asked you to support it with scriptures if you could. Rather that doing so, you choose to say:

Thats fine; not a problem at all. But what's the purpose of chiming in on a biblically based discussion if you don't feel like bothering to show the scriptures that support how you feel on the topic?

Anyway, suit yourself.

Blessings...

.

My brother Daniel has done a fine job for me.

Thanks Dan! (With all the packing, I don't have the energy to get into this one.)

TRFrance · #44 12-13-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Why don't you address what TRFrance has written? The question is when does the Spirit indwell a believer? You have said at faith. Please prove it with the scriptures that agree with your assertion.

He hasn't responded to the specific scriptures, and most PCI'ers wont even try. They'll just try to trot out some other (out-of-context) scriptures to support what they feel.

The question is pretty straightforward. At what point does the spirit come to indwell the believer??. They'll say at believing/at accepting/ at baptism/ ... but their are scriptures that blatantly contradict that, and they cant provide a solid answer to those direct scriptures.

SDG · #45 12-13-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

He hasn't responded to the specific scriptures, and most PCI'ers wont even try. They'll just try to trot out some other (out-of-context) scriptures to support what they feel.

The question is pretty straightforward. At what point does the spirit come to indwell the believer??. They'll say at believing/at accepting/ at baptism/ ... but their are scriptures that blatantly contradict that, and they cant provide a solid answer to those direct scriptures.

Please go down the context road ... since filled to you must always means initial indwelling???? ....

You asked for scripture ... you don't have one for your own question ... is it when they speak in tongues and/or prophesy???

You've mistaken an experience w/ God making fellowship in the heart of a man.

Let alone only 4 conversion experiences of 21 that include tongues in the book of ACTS yet you make the experience salvific ... A REQUIREMENT THAT IS A GIFT???? ... with no evidence for or against this happening in every case ...

if heaven and hell hinged on a tongues experience ... the bible would be more than clear on the issue ...

AS IT IS W/ SAVING FAITH AND TURNING TO GOD.

btw .... Your example in Acts 8 has no tongues. There is a visible laying of hands.
btw ... NO PCIer says the indwelling happens at baptism ... wrong set of believers.

Joelel · #46 12-13-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

This one is even easier:

John 20:22

And when he had said this, he(A) breathed on them and said to them, (B) "Receive the Holy Spirit."

Luke wrote that Jesus said this at the same time.When he said receive the Holy Ghost means the same as tarry in the city of Jerusalem.So they obeyed and was filled with the Holy Ghost on the day of pentecost.Luke.24
[29] But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
[49] And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

SDG · #47 12-13-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelel

Luke wrote that Jesus said this at the same time.When he said receive the Holy Ghost means the same as tarry in the city of Jerusalem.So they obeyed and was filled with the Holy Ghost on the day of pentecost.Luke.24
[29] But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
[49] And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

At the same time? As in historically or about the same event? The were various appearings.

Your first verse is w/ the 2 disciples walking to Emmaus ... the invitation was to stay w/ them that evening.

The second is a promise of being endued w/ power to the eleven.

Your point?

BoredOutOfMyMind · #48 12-13-2007, 01:37 PM

:hmm so being filled with Joy equates the Holy Ghost (Spirit of the Christ) infilling?

Some weird theology here and direct contrast to John 3:1-8

Why then would someone ever seek the Holy Ghost if the Holy Ghost infilling is now equated to an option?

SDG · #49 12-13-2007, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

:hmm so being filled with Joy equates the Holy Ghost (Spirit of the Christ) infilling?

Some weird theology here and direct contrast to John 3:1-8

Why then would someone ever seek the Holy Ghost if the Holy Ghost infilling is now equated to an option?

An option ... BOOM??? ...the HG is a reality for all believers

that's in contrast to making a gift a REQUIREMENT .. based on a manifestation/ sign for the unbeliever.

But it makes for great stats on the UPCI.org cover page.

Scott Hutchinson · #50 12-13-2007, 01:47 PM

Not to be ugly or mean spirited,but I don't anybody receiving the Holy Ghost in John 20.
I used to attend a Trinitarian full gospel church and they taught that one receives a measure of the Spirit at salvation and another measure of the Spirit at the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
You to me it's kinda of odd ,but to hold ministerial license with the AOG one must have the HG. baptism with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance ,but they teach one can make heaven without it,but you can't hold a license with them if you don't have the Holy Ghost baptism.