What Happened At Pentecost in Acts 2?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

I agree with the emboldened that we resurrected with Jesus Christ. We were dead unto our sins previously and now we're alive unto God.
However, I still believe in a bodily resurrection of believers according I Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15.

I still believe that, too!

In fact, that is why I believe the FIRST RESURRECTION in Rev 20 is SALVATION, and the SECOND RESURRECTION is that of the body. Only SAINTS experience the first resurrection that frees us from the second death (lake of fire), but everyone will experience the second bodily one, since Acts 24:15 mentions the resurrection of both the JUST and the UNJUST, and John 5:29 mentions resurrection of life and of damnation.

In John 5, Jesus spoke of TWO resurrections. The first is salvation in John 5:25-27 and the second is the body from the grave in 5:28-29.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

I agree with the emboldened that we resurrected with Jesus Christ. We were dead unto our sins previously and now we're alive unto God.
However, I still believe in a bodily resurrection of believers according I Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15.

I see it that way also.

In his book on resurrection, G.T. Haywood divides the first resurrection up into several stages.
--Jesus (1 Cor 15:23)
--others at His physical resurrection as first fruits (1 Cor. 15:23; Matthew 27:52-53)
--Spiritual resurrection of believers during the church age (Colossians 3:1)
--Rapture and physical resurrection (1 Thess 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-54)
--Spiritual resurrection of believers during the tribulation (Revelation 14:1-5)
--Physical resurrection of tribulation saints (and maybe Old Testament saints) Revelation 20:4-6)

I'm doing this by memory --too lazy to check his book-- so I may have messed this up.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

... Acts 24:15 mentions the resurrection of both the JUST and the UNJUST, and John 5:29 mentions resurrection of life and of damnation.

In John 5, Jesus spoke of TWO resurrections. The first is salvation in John 5:25-27 and the second is the body from the grave in 5:28-29.

Not to get way off here, but the teaching I received at the Apostolic Bible institute, and subsequently by my pastor F.E. Curts, which both agree pretty much with the G.T. Haywood teaching is that there are two physical resurrections. The first resurrection is for saved folks. The second resurrection includes all who were not in the first resurrection and is depicted in Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:11-15. Those in the first resurrection were "holy" and those in the second resurrection were either "righteous" or "wicked." This goes along with one form of the light doctrine that teaches Acts 2:38 (or maybe Old Testament salvation also) is necessary for the first resurrection but many who were not saved but served God in all the light they had will be considered righteous and have eternal life either in heaven (as taught by Bro. Curts) or on a new earth (as taught by Bro. Norris and Bishop Haywood).

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sam

Not to get way off here, but the teaching I received at the Apostolic Bible institute, and subsequently by my pastor F.E. Curts, which both agree pretty much with the G.T. Haywood teaching is that there are two physical resurrections. The first resurrection is for saved folks. The second resurrection includes all who were not in the first resurrection and is depicted in Matthew 25:31-46 and Revelation 20:11-15. Those in the first resurrection were "holy" and those in the second resurrection were either "righteous" or "wicked." This goes along with one form of the light doctrine that teaches Acts 2:38 (or maybe Old Testament salvation also) is necessary for the first resurrection but many who were not saved but served God in all the light they had will be considered righteous and have eternal life either in heaven (as taught by Bro. Curts) or on a new earth (as taught by Bro. Norris and Bishop Haywood).

I used to believe the same thing, generally speaking. However, after my personal studies along those lines, I could no longer retain that thought. But that's just me.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

There are seven things that should prove instructive.

First, read Joel 2:28-32 and compare with Acts 2:1-22.
Second, read Psalms 16 and compare with Acts 2:23-33
Third, read Psalms 110 and compare with Acts 2:34-37

So, the question the multitudes asked in Acts 2:37, "... what shall we do?" was not, "... what shall we do [to be saved]?", as so many like to add to the verse. Rather, it was more in line with, "... what shall we do [now]?" From scripture they already knew what to do to be 'saved'. From living by faith (Habakkuk 2:4) to the circumcision of the heart (Deuteronomy 10:16; 30:6).

The feast of Shavuot (Pentecost) is the anniversary day (6th of Sivan) when God addressed the entire nation of Israel and gave them the 'Law'. It was also this same day that God choose to shed abroad His Holy Spirit with the advent period of Christ.

However, the disciples had their names written in the book of life (written in heaven) prior to the death of Jesus (Luke 10:20), and a number of the disciples also received the holy Spirit prior to the day of Pentecost (John 20:19-24), which, from the evidence of Pentecost, those disciple being in attendance received the 'authority' of the Spirit directly from Jesus, but not yet the ability to exercise the 'power' of the Spirit on their own. Compare the universal authority demonstrated in (Acts 3:6) and the 'conditional' authority demonstrated in Luke 9:1-6 and Luke 10:1-17)

Another common doctrine that gets hit, is that on the day of Pentecost the disciple spoke in 'unknown' tongues. Taken by many to include speaking in a prayer language or in some heavenly language. Not so. All recorded languages in Acts 2 were of known languages. While the speakers may not have 'known' (understood) the languages they spoke, others did. The terms 'unknown tongues' and 'unknown language' do not exist in the original biblical texts. Actually, the Greek word for 'unknown' is not even used in the New Testament texts.

When religious traditions takes presence over scripture, we are free to make of scripture whatever we desire. Well, we are free to do what we desire until we have to face God and explain, by what authority we rewrote His word and set our own doctrines above His. And, to think that we often judge harshly the traditions of the Pharisees and Scribes. /sigh/

Wow. As usual, once you say something, there isn't much left to be said. Great analysis. Thank you for sharing your gift.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Wow. As usual, once you say something, there isn't much left to be said. Great analysis. Thank you for sharing your gift.

He's a pretty neat guy, isn't he?

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Sam

He's a pretty neat guy, isn't he?

Very much so. And you do a dern good job yourself. I'm not an information geek but I could sit and listen to AW for hours.

[notofworks]

Ok, I just finished reading through the thread. Well, that's not totally accurate...I skipped all that pre-terrorism hooey. Ya'll jumped in and ruined a really good thread. Go start your own hooey-thread and let's dive into what Sam started. No one even attempted to answer what AW said, including Brilliant Blume, who would completely disagree with him. Instead, he jumped into the terrorism nonsense.

I'd like to hear a response to what AW said on page one. Pressing on? Bloom? Give it a shot (if you're able).

[Sam]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

...
So, the question the multitudes asked in Acts 2:37, "... what shall we do?" was not, "... what shall we do [to be saved]?", as so many like to add to the verse. Rather, it was more in line with, "... what shall we do [now]?" From scripture they already knew what to do to be 'saved'. From living by faith (Habakkuk 2:4) to the circumcision of the heart (Deuteronomy 10:16; 30:6).
...

A couple of thoughts about your comments.

Concerning the Habakkuk scripture, Paul quotes it three times in the New Testament to describe justification/salvation by faith.
Romans 1:17 (the Just)
Gal 3:11 (shall live)
Heb 10:38 (by faith)

I have a couple notes in my Bible at Hab 2:4 that I am not sure of their source.
The first is "Grandfather of the Reformation" I think I heard Bro. S.G. Norris say that.
The second is:
The Jewish Talmud says Moses gave Israel 613 commandments, David reduced them to 10, Isaiah to 2, and Habakkuk to one, "The just shall live by his faith."

[mfblume]

My understanding leans on the note Peter said about the right hand seating of Christ, which indicated the Spirit was poured out only due to that seating. This means what they received in Acts 2 was not the same as any experience before the cross.

Also, Peter said Acts 2:38 was words amongst more words of how to be saved from that wicked generation, as Jesus emphasized that generation was doomed again and again in the gospels. So acts 2:38 IS about salvation!

Acts 2:38-40 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (40) And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Some might think 2:40 salvation was from doom for Israel, which may be the case.

My thoughts anyway.