RCC is satanic

[Praxeas]

And here is a pepperoni pizza

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And here is a pepperoni pizza

Wow, if you look long and hard enough you can see a Pentagram?

Or maybe not...

Maybe a quicker glance you can see Topo Gigio????

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Wow, if you look long and hard enough you can see a Pentagram?

Or maybe not...

Maybe a quicker glance you can see Topo Gigio????

Hexagram, spotted with pork and melted fat of goyim?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Hexagram, spotted with pork and melted fat of goyim?

Wow!!!!

That was my first thought!

A hexagram.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Acts 7:42-43 Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness? (43) Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

Amos 5:25-27 Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel? (26) But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. (27) Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts.

Amos 5:25-27 (Brenton's tr. of LXX) Have ye offered to me victims and sacrifices, O house of Israel, forty years in the wilderness? (26) Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Raephan, the images of them which ye made for yourselves. (27) And I will carry you away beyond Damascus, saith the Lord, the Almighty God is his name.

Vincent's Word Studies:

Remphan
The texts vary between Remphan, Rephan, and Romphan. It is supposed to be the Coptic name for Saturn, to which the Arabs, Egyptians, and Phoenicians paid divine honors.

So one of the ancient names for Saturn (the god, represented by the planet) was this Remphan. The "star of Remphan" would then be the "star of Saturn".

Baal was often associated with Saturn. Carthaginian "Baal Hammon" was claimed by the Romans to be Saturn/Cronos. (Carthage was a Phoenician colony.)

So the "star of Remphan" would be the "star of Saturn/Baal".

During the medieval period, Jewish kaballists would use the hexagram as a symbol for Saturn, it became known in occultism as the star of Saturn. It was also known as the "seal of Solomon" and then later as the "Shield of David". But it actually has to do with Saturn, which as we can see is BAAL.

So Baal worship included worship of Saturn (associated with child sacrifice) and a "star" as his symbol, which was codified as a hexagram in the middle ages, and finally appears on the national flag of the Zionist state of "Israel".

Just revisiting this with some new information.

Previously I think I mentioned in this thread about Saturn was often recognised as the Sun, that the gods associated with the planet Saturn were often Sun-gods. This has led some to speculate that in ancient times Saturn was revered as the life-giving Sun due to the earth being in a different position than it now is, namely, in orbit around Saturn. The myths are (they say) about how the Saturn-Sun god ruled during the Golden Age of happiness, but then fell from grace or was overthrown and banished to the outer limits. This, they claim, signified that the earth was removed from Saturn's orbit and began to orbit the (current) Sun, and the history was handed down through the ancient myths.

But they are apparently wrong.

The ancient identification of Saturn with the Sun occurs in Greek and Roman myth, Vedic/Indian myth, Egyptian myth, and Babylonian myth. It was common from abut 750 BC to around 600 BC, and not before, although there is one single occurrence from around 1300 BC which may, but not certainly, be equating Saturn with the Sun (it is somewhat unclear). The idea was then picked up by the Egyptians and the Greeks, the latter whom brought the idea to India via Persia. Prior to that there is no Saturn-Sun identification.

Interestingly, the Babylonian astronomers/astrologers did not confuse Saturn with the Sun, but identified it as "the son of the Sun", or "the star of the Sun". It was identified as a substitute Sun or "mock Sun" for various conjunctions which occurred at night or in relation to the moon or other stars when the actual Sun would have either been unseen or would have made the conjunction impossible to see. It served as a surrogate Sun, in other words. (They occasionally used Mercury the same way as a surrogate moon.)

The Babylonian astrologers gave each of the planets (including the Sun) a "bit" or "secret place" (related to Hebrew "beth" or House, from which we get the "houses" of the Zodiac. The house for the Sun was Aries, and exactly six signs following Aries is Libra known to the Babylonians as the Scales or Balances. In other words, Libra was directly opposite to Aries. Libra was the house assigned by them to Saturn, so that as the house of the sun was setting the house of Saturn was rising. Saturn's house was thus directly opposite the Sun's in the Babylonian Zodiac. This of course was not based upon observation (there is no observational basis for assigning Saturn to Libra) but appears to have followed from their use of Saturn as a surrogate Sun.

What is interesting is the Chaldeans, noted for being the wisest of astronomers and astrologers, apparently entered southern Babylonia during the 9th-8th centuries BC, the same time frame in which this Saturn-Sun connection shows up. It is also during this period that the original Babylonian Zodiac of 17 (some say 18) Houses was reduced to 12 Houses each of 30 degrees. So it seems the Chaldeans were responsible for the 12 House Zodiac and the identification of Saturn with the Sun.

So the question then is raised, Why did the Chaldeans of all people have this identification? And why did nobody else until after contact with the Chaldean-Babylonian astonomers?

For a scholarly look at the data, and the rather well-supported theory that the association was made due to the observation of Saturn's synodic cycle being closest in duration to the Sun's, see here ---> https://www.researchgate.net/publica...tern_Tradition

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So the question then is raised, Why did the Chaldeans of all people have this identification? And why did nobody else until after contact with the Chaldean-Babylonian astonomers?

It is well known that Baal was associated with both the sun and apparently also Saturn. Now, baal is a generic term meaning "lord", "master", and by extension "owner" or "possessor". It was a common title, as well as an epithet or "name" of various gods. There were many baals or Baals. In fact the Bible speaks of the "Baalim" (plural, baals). Yet, it also seems that all these different Baals were in fact the same basic deity. The Baal of Ekron and the Baal of Tyre for example would be considered the same basic deity, just with peculiar rites and their own cult system based on locality.

Baal was the storm god, master of the weather and the seasons, as well master of the crops and harvests. Thus, baal was also a fertility god. Baal was styled Baal Shamash or Lord of Heaven by some. All these different Baals appear to have been local varieties of the Babylonian Bel-Merodach (Bel-Marduk), one of if not the chief god of the Babylonians.

Interestingly, Jehovah was also known as Baal. the term literally means "Lord", and just like today God was often referred to as simply "the Lord". The name Baal appears in numerous Israelite names including a son of David. So basically the conflict between Jehovah and Baal as the object of worship in Israel and Canaan wasn't as much of a conflict between two distinct deities, but between two conceptions of who and what "The Lord" was. Israelites worshipped the Lord. Canaanites also worshipped the Lord. Israelites often worshipped the Lord using the rites of Canaan, instead of the rites prescribed through Moses. As a result, back then just as today there was conflict over who the Lord really was and how He was to be worshipped. We have numerous denominations and even entire religions that all claim to worship "the Lord" but do so with various and often conflicting rites, with correspondingly different beliefs and doctrines about the Lord. Are these all the same God? Or are they different gods masquerading or competing for the position of "the Lord" (the true God)?

Most likely, it is both. Upon reflection, there really isn't much difference between the two concepts: multiple gods all claimed to be "the Lord", vs "the Lord" worshipped in a multitude of different ways. It may be argued that to worship the Lord in a different way is to in effect be worshipping a different Lord, a different god altogether.

One thing is certain, mankind originally only had one God, Jehovah, the Creator. But over time the worship of God was corrupted and paganism sprung up. Yet, paganism still claimed to be worshipping "the Lord", the Lord of Heaven, the giver of life, the judge of mankind, the King ("Melech"), etc. In fact, this corruption of the true worship of Jehovah led him to eventually declare that He would no longer be called Baal:

Hosea 2:16-17 KJV
And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali. [17] For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.

Apparently, "baal worship" in ancient Israel was rather confused, just like today how "worship of the Lord" is rather confused from sect to sect.

So, with all that being said, Baal being identified with the sun seems to be a corruption of the true religion of Noah, Seth, and Adam. The Lord who created heaven and earth and made the sun to rule the day began to be replaced with worship of the sun itself as His primary manifestation or symbol. So Baal (the Lord) becomes the Sun-God.

But still we haven't figured out why the ancient near east cults also associated Baal with the planet Saturn, and why the Chaldeans apparently took this idea and associated Saturn with the sun as a "mock Sun", "star of the Sun", or "son of the Sun". Perhaps the widespread association of Baal with Saturn was the result of the Chaldean astronomical identification of Saturn with the Sun. Or perhaps vice versa. I am not sure yet which came first. And I am not sure why the identification was made to begin with.

I do however think the answer lies somewhere and somehow connected to Nimrod and his relationship with Jehovah.

[Amanah]

As this post popped up, I'm I reading 2 Thessalonians 2.

I know we are waiting for Jesus to return, destroy mystery Babylon, and establish His reign on the earth.

What are your thoughts on where we are in regards to 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12.


The Man of Lawlessness
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?
6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.
7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.
9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

As this post popped up, I'm I reading 2 Thessalonians 2.

I know we are waiting for Jesus to return, destroy mystery Babylon, and establish His reign on the earth.

What are your thoughts on where we are in regards to 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12.


The Man of Lawlessness
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?
6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.
7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.
9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,
10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

I believe the man of sin is not a single individual, but a class of persons (similar to "the man of God" being a class of persons). The mystery of iniquity (lawlessness) ties in with the little horn of Daniel 7 who would think to change times and laws. So Paul is saying there was a conspiracy of sorts focused on lawlessness (antinomianism, contrary to the Divine Law of God) but it could not come to full fruition and power until something was removed out of the way, something that hindered it. I believe this hindrance was the pagan Roman government or social system. Once that pagan Roman system had been replaced by the "Christianization of Rome" via the conversion of Constantine, the mystery of lawlessness was no longer being restrained by the pagan persecutions or the pagan imperial government.

As we all know, after the Empire officially became "Christian" (catholic) the ecclesiastical system of Papal Catholicism took over and the heresies which had been bubbling in Christendom becgan to be codified into Canon law and made requirements (Creeds, confessions, etc). The Papal system itself was a final development of clericalism, the institution of "priesthood" and the division of the saints into "clergy and laity". The man of sin was a class of persons who, like Judas, had the position of apostle (that is, they were elders and overseers in the church) but presumed too much of their position and became lords over God's heritage, thus betraying the Body of Christ by abusing their fellow saints.

So the apostle was prophesying about the rise of clericalism. We can see this in John's warning concerning Diotrephes, of Peter and Jude warning about false teachers and false brethren, and Paul's warning to the elders of Ephesus about how among their number grievous wolves would arise not sparing the sheep. Clericalism had its full bloom in what would become known as the Catholic religion, although "the man of sin" is certainly not limited to the Papal system.

The man of sin sits in the Temple of God usurping God's position as Head. This began within the apostolic churches shortly after the decease of the apostles and even in their day it was worming its way into things. Eventually, this clericalism gave rise to the catholic concept of the sacrament of the priesthood and the idea that grace was conferred to the faithful via the priests, who stood in the church in God's stead. It was fully developed in the idea of the Pope ("Pappa", or "Father") who eventually claimed to be God on Earth and other such blasphemies.

So, the man of sin was the clerical development that led to and made possible the rise of the Little Horn persecuting power. It was restrained by pagan Roman Imperial influence and persecutions of Christians, but once that was removed there was nothing to stop the mystery of lawlessness from going full bore into the monstrosity that it became.

With this in mind, it follows then that the man of sin is not simply an individual, nor any particular organisation, but a type of minister - who usurps the place of God in the church. As such, the man of sin and the mystery of iniquity are alive and well even today, in churches that have allowed some human leader to replace the leading of the Holy Spirit. The terms refer to a spiritual movement that was working in the apostles' day and still does today. The RCC is simply the ultimate political and religious outgrowth of the apostasy and conspiracy of lawlessness that was beginning to infiltrate the early churches.

Mystery Babylon (so called) is, to my understanding, the global or world "system" that is propped up by the underlying Roman civil and ecclesiastical system, and which will be destroyed by the nations that comprise that Roman system. When? I have no idea, could be soon, could be another couple of centuries. I don't see anything in scripture specifying that time period. Maybe I just need to study harder?

But one thing is for sure, clericalism and anything and everything that usurps the role of Christ will be destroyed and consumed by the Lord. It seems Paul is predicting that clericalism and all its outgrowths would be "overthrown" by the breath of the Lord's mouth (implying clericalism would fall due to genuine Gospel preaching), and the clericalists would be "consumed" by Divine Judgment. Whether that Judgment occurs simultaneously with the appearing of Christ and the resurrection of the saints, or whether it occurs some time before that, I am not sure. The coming of the Lord is a phrase used throughout Scripture to refer to any Divine visitation of Judgment.

One thing is clear from the text though, our gathering together with Christ was not imminent at the time Paul wrote his epistle, and would not occur until AFTER the revealing of the man of sin. So, the whole rapture canard falls flat for sure.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I do however think the answer lies somewhere and somehow connected to Nimrod and his relationship with Jehovah.

I just want to point out that Alexander Hislop's famous (or infamous) work is NOT the basis of my thoughts concerning Nimrod's role here. Hislop was really off base on a lot of stuff, writing as he was PRIOR to some of the most important and informative discoveries of archaeology in the Ancient Near East. On top of which he had a penchant for literally just making some things up. For example, he claims that Nimrod was married to Semiramis and had a son named Tammuz, that Semiramis claimed Tammuz was the reincarnation of Nimrod, and that Nimrod was the founder of Ninevah and the Assyrian civilisation. Further, that Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammuz are the Assyrian/Babylonian counterparts to Osiris, Isis, and Horus.

Well, in reality, most everything he wrote about the subject relied entirely and completely on Eusebius' quotations of a Greek writer (Ctesius? the name escapes me at the moment) who relayed supposed Assyrian traditions that simply have never been documented anywhere, and which have been actually refuted in several ways by the late 19th and early 20th century discoveries in Assyriology and Ancient Near East archaeology.

So my thoughts about Nimrod's role in this aren't based on Hislop. Although I will say that Hislop makes some observations that require some further investigation. I do not think Hislop was completely out in left field and should be disregarded entirely, but rather that he was a bit too quick to make connections where none existed in the documentable ancient literature.

[Amanah]

I think this might be the most confounding scripture in the bible:

1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV
10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

How is it even remotely possible for us all the speak the same thing when not very long after the Apostles the church began to fracture?

And then on top of that:

Romans 16:17-18 KJV
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.