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  #391  
Old 10-30-2016, 10:14 AM
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Godsdrummer Godsdrummer is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

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Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
nice. well, not nice, but the natural premise of like-minded people, who really aren't as like minded as they would like to think. Right? How can two walk together, unless they be in agreement? which of course we take to mean "agreeing on beliefs," when that is not what is meant; as evidenced by those who say they are "in agreement," yet feel compelled to seek differences, rather than agreement!
Ah yes there is that or so it seems. I like to think in terms of being compelled to be enlightening rather than being compelled to seek differences. But thinking this through a bit more completely. There are two elements to discussion, defense and offense. Either you are defending (defense) your beliefs or you are propagating your belief. (Offense). It seems regardless as to whether one is defending a belief or propagating a belief, someone gets hurt.

The point I was making above about the beginning of what many call the "out second pouring of the HG", which in fact was the out pouring in America. Had its beginnings among what we might call today non denominational groups. It was further centered around receiving the HG, not building a certain group under a certain name. What began with a small group of bible school students in Topeka K. Quickly spread to California from which it went to the whole world in less than 15 years.

In those days salvation meant when someone believed, and followed that belief with baptism. (baptism not being part of the salvational plan) It was in 1913 that what is termed the "revelation of the Godhead" was brought out. At the world wide camp meeting in Arroyo Seco CA. Here is the thing, those early men, did not make these new revelations a point of separation of fellowship unless forced to do so.

In the beginning the UPCI was formed primarily to bring together men and women joined together by their belief in the oneness of the Godhead. For many years these men and women fellowshipped with each other in love and kindness. And the organization grew. But just like in the early 1900's when men began to cause divisions concerning doctrinal belief. When UPCI began to do the same is when IMO they started to crumble.

Are they dying? No I think they are already dead. As dead as the Methodist, Baptist, 7th day Adventist, and I could go on.
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  #392  
Old 10-30-2016, 01:15 PM
Jito463 Jito463 is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

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Originally Posted by Godsdrummer View Post
Are they dying? No I think they are already dead. As dead as the Methodist, Baptist, 7th day Adventist, and I could go on.
Funny, our service this morning certainly didn't feel dead.

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  #393  
Old 10-30-2016, 01:49 PM
shag shag is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

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Originally Posted by Godsdrummer View Post
Ah yes there is that or so it seems. I like to think in terms of being compelled to be enlightening rather than being compelled to seek differences. But thinking this through a bit more completely. There are two elements to discussion, defense and offense. Either you are defending (defense) your beliefs or you are propagating your belief. (Offense). It seems regardless as to whether one is defending a belief or propagating a belief, someone gets hurt.

The point I was making above about the beginning of what many call the "out second pouring of the HG", which in fact was the out pouring in America. Had its beginnings among what we might call today non denominational groups. It was further centered around receiving the HG, not building a certain group under a certain name. What began with a small group of bible school students in Topeka K. Quickly spread to California from which it went to the whole world in less than 15 years.

In those days salvation meant when someone believed, and followed that belief with baptism. (baptism not being part of the salvational plan) It was in 1913 that what is termed the "revelation of the Godhead" was brought out. At the world wide camp meeting in Arroyo Seco CA. Here is the thing, those early men, did not make these new revelations a point of separation of fellowship unless forced to do so.

In the beginning the UPCI was formed primarily to bring together men and women joined together by their belief in the oneness of the Godhead. For many years these men and women fellowshipped with each other in love and kindness. And the organization grew. But just like in the early 1900's when men began to cause divisions concerning doctrinal belief. When UPCI began to do the same is when IMO they started to crumble.

Are they dying? No I think they are already dead. As dead as the Methodist, Baptist, 7th day Adventist, and I could go on.


Heard a pastor from another church preaching today at ours, his songs, to me were incredibly annointed. Then he preached (not screamed)and folks were hitting their knees thruout his singing, as well as a couple before he even made the Billy graham alter call, let alone afterward.


Found out 2 hours after the meeting, that he has a child in the last stage of cancer.






Course, it seems they're few and far between

Not really dead tho.


Now upci "government"...maybe a different story
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Last edited by shag; 10-30-2016 at 03:15 PM.
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  #394  
Old 10-30-2016, 03:51 PM
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My dear shazeep, does anyone other than me pay even the slightest attention to what you have to say?
Seeing as Armageddon happened 2000 years ago... Moot.
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  #395  
Old 10-30-2016, 07:05 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

think so?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godsdrummer View Post
Ah yes there is that or so it seems. I like to think in terms of being compelled to be enlightening rather than being compelled to seek differences. But thinking this through a bit more completely. There are two elements to discussion, defense and offense. Either you are defending (defense) your beliefs or you are propagating your belief. (Offense). It seems regardless as to whether one is defending a belief or propagating a belief, someone gets hurt.
Ha! perhaps why i believe all things
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godsdrummer View Post
The point I was making above about the beginning of what many call the "out second pouring of the HG", which in fact was the out pouring in America. Had its beginnings among what we might call today non denominational groups. It was further centered around receiving the HG, not building a certain group under a certain name. What began with a small group of bible school students in Topeka K. Quickly spread to California from which it went to the whole world in less than 15 years.

In those days salvation meant when someone believed, and followed that belief with baptism. (baptism not being part of the salvational plan) It was in 1913 that what is termed the "revelation of the Godhead" was brought out. At the world wide camp meeting in Arroyo Seco CA. Here is the thing, those early men, did not make these new revelations a point of separation of fellowship unless forced to do so.

In the beginning the UPCI was formed primarily to bring together men and women joined together by their belief in the oneness of the Godhead. For many years these men and women fellowshipped with each other in love and kindness. And the organization grew. But just like in the early 1900's when men began to cause divisions concerning doctrinal belief. When UPCI began to do the same is when IMO they started to crumble.

Are they dying? No I think they are already dead. As dead as the Methodist, Baptist, 7th day Adventist, and I could go on.
hmm. so, they suffered a mortal wound, but were healed, maybe?

Last edited by shazeep; 10-30-2016 at 07:14 PM.
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  #396  
Old 10-30-2016, 07:11 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

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Originally Posted by Jito463 View Post
Funny, our service this morning certainly didn't feel dead.

nice

ya, can't apply that like that, obviously. regardless of your banner, your congregation is made up of people

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Originally Posted by shag View Post
Now upci "government"...maybe a different story

it's almost like...there's a witness or something...

Last edited by shazeep; 10-30-2016 at 07:15 PM.
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  #397  
Old 10-30-2016, 07:23 PM
Carl Carl is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

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Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
think so?
Ha! perhaps why i believe all things
hmm. so, they suffered a mortal wound, but were healed, maybe?
Is the point that you've been trying to make, is that all churches or organizations are antichrist?
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  #398  
Old 10-30-2016, 07:53 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

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Originally Posted by Carl View Post
Is the point that you've been trying to make, is that all churches or organizations are antichrist?
no, i cannot say this because our lexicons might not agree, @ "church," what is church. Is it an organization? what do you mean by organization, how is it organized, who organized it. is there anything written down, like in stone, that cannot be altered? especially--and i know this will sound really weird, but it us a reflection of "give me a Scriptural doctrine, and i will give you its opposite"--if there is any Scripture quoted as having primacy? sure seems like the thing to do tho, huh. lol. nope. this is a fatal wound. still may not accurately reflect the people there, tho, hmm.

Last edited by shazeep; 10-30-2016 at 07:55 PM.
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  #399  
Old 10-30-2016, 09:27 PM
Carl Carl is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

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Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
no, i cannot say this because our lexicons might not agree, @ "church," what is church. Is it an organization? what do you mean by organization, how is it organized, who organized it. is there anything written down, like in stone, that cannot be altered? especially--and i know this will sound really weird, but it us a reflection of "give me a Scriptural doctrine, and i will give you its opposite"--if there is any Scripture quoted as having primacy? sure seems like the thing to do tho, huh. lol. nope. this is a fatal wound. still may not accurately reflect the people there, tho, hmm.
Well that clarifies it.
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  #400  
Old 10-31-2016, 07:50 AM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: The UPC is a dying movement!

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Originally Posted by Carl View Post
Well that clarifies it.
well, the problem might be that it is the people who are the Church, and there is no other Church but the people, so, the UPCI is an organization, not a church. It is an attempt to organize the Church. Hmm. So, instead of the Church being made up of the members of the Body, the Church is being made into an organ of...something else. Now we are not talking about congregations...until they accept being an organ of something else.

And even this may not describe a person, who happens to be there in the congregation, because they may not consider themselves a...member...is a member the same as an organ? Yes, it is. So when you become a member, you become an organ, to whatever it is that you have joined. Whaddya think?

Last edited by shazeep; 10-31-2016 at 08:10 AM.
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