Tithing: a salvation issue?

[Scott Hutchinson]

Here one can read Should We Tithe By Charles Halff.
http://precious-testimonies.com/Exho...uldwetithe.htm

[Pragmatist]

Originally Posted by winklebottom

We have a lot of unemployed stay at home Mom's etc. in our church. I have always felt they should be tithing their time or something. Am I being mean or what?? What say you all? Is "first fruits" and tithing always money??

Why single out unemployed stay at home mothers? There are many other "unemployed" people who attend church.

Just so you know I think you are being mean.

I worked for the past 16 years and tithed on that income. I have been a stay at home mother for the past 8 months. I had more free time when I worked since I now have a 24 hour a day, seven day a week job where I am fortunate to get an occasional short break when Daddy takes care of the baby.

Have you been an unemployed stay at home mother? If not, I don't think you have the right to comment.

And I'm glad my pastor and his wife display more wisdom. They recognize that I'm overwhelmed and gave my previous responsibilities to someone else.

[joyful]

Originally Posted by winklebottom

We have a lot of unemployed stay at home Mom's etc. in our church. I have always felt they should be tithing their time or something. Am I being mean or what?? What say you all? Is "first fruits" and tithing always money??

Yes, this comes across as mean. It also makes it seem like you have very little knowledge of what stay at home moms actually do. I worked outside the home for 8 years before we had our first baby. The last 4 years I was in a pretty high pressure position working about 60 hours a week. That job was still less work than I do now as the mother of very active 1 and 3 year old girls. I had much more time to give the church before than I do now.

This concept really makes no sense. Since the tithe is to support the ministry, should the stay at home moms be going over and doing chores at the Pastor's home? Does money take the place of time? After all, we all have time, so we should all be tithing it according to this "principle".

As a sidenote, I have actually heard it preached that we have to give the Lord 2.4 hours of every day in prayer and bible reading as a tithe.

Anyway, my long answer to your question is no. The family's income is being tithed. It doesn't matter who is earning it.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by winklebottom

We have a lot of unemployed stay at home Mom's etc. in our church. I have always felt they should be tithing their time or something. Am I being mean or what?? What say you all? Is "first fruits" and tithing always money??

FirstFRUITS and tithes has never been money or even time, scriprturally speaking.

Someone shared this with me a while back, and I thought I would pass it along.

Jews Do Not Tithe Today

Thankfully, Jewish theologians know better than their Christian counterparts. They are well aware that only Levites have the right to receive tithe of the people. After all, the Jewish leaders have the Old Testament as their Scripture and that's what it commands. And since there is no Temple in existence (and consequently no ordained Levites or Priests serving in a Temple), then a major factor in fulfilling the laws of tithing does not exist in our modern world.
In regard to this, it may be profitable to relate an event that happened to me over thirty-five years ago when I was just starting to study theology in college. A letter had been given to me for answering. It was from a woman who heard that modern Jews were not tithing. She wanted to know whether the information was true, and if so, why the Jews seemingly violated the plain laws of the Bible which spoke of tithing as a law to be obeyed?
Having read the letter, I began to share her concern. To resolve the matter I telephoned three rabbis in the Los Angeles area for their explanation. Much to my dismay, all three independently of each other informed me that no religious Jew should tithe today. I was startled at their replies. This appeared to be evidence that the Jews were so lax with their biblical interpretation that they were abandoning even the simple words of their own Scripture about the laws of tithing.
By the time I spoke with the last rabbi, my youthful indignation was beginning to emerge. But that rabbi then wisely began to show me my ignorance (not his) in the whole matter. First, he admitted that none of his congregation paid one penny of tithe that was demanded in the Old Testament. He then said: "If any member of my synagogue paid tithe in the scriptural manner, he would be disobeying the law of God” he would be sinning against God."
I was staggered by his answer. He went on to inform me that since the Bible demands that the tithe be paid to Levites, he said it would be wrong to pay it to anyone else. And further, because there is presently no official Levitical order of Priests ministering at a Temple in Jerusalem, this makes it illegal at this period to pay any biblical tithe. He went on to say, however, that the moment a Temple is rebuilt, with its altar in operation and with the priesthood officiating at that altar (and the Levites there to assist them), then every Jew who lives in the tithing zones mentioned in the Bible will be required to tithe according to the biblical commands.
This teaching was a revelation to me (as it may be to some of our readers), but the rabbi gave the proper biblical answers. To pay the biblical tithe at this time, without Levites and Priests in their regular ordained offices and doing service in the Temple, would be "sin" both to the giver and the receiver. The rabbi told me: "If we are to obey the law, we cannot pay tithe unless we pay it to the ones ordained by God to accept that tithe."
The rabbi explained that though he was the chief rabbi of his synagogue, he was not a Levite. He said he was descended from the tribe of Judah and was thereby not eligible to receive tithe. The same disqualification applied even to Christ Jesus while he was on earth since he was also reckoned as having come from the tribe of Judah. This same restriction was applicable to the activities of the apostle Peter (because he was as well from Judah) and it applied to the apostle Paul (because he was from the tribe of Benjamin). Neither Christ nor those apostles were Levites so they were all disqualified from receiving any part of the biblical tithe. It is just that simple. And listen, if Christ, Peter and Paul did not use the biblical tithe for any of their work in the teaching the Gospel, Christian ministers today should not use the biblical tithe either. The Jewish religious authorities are wise enough to read what the Word of God states about the tithe and, thankfully, they abide by it. But our Gentile preachers and priests care very little what the biblical texts actually state and go merrily on their way by devising their own laws of tithing which are different from those of the Bible.
The rabbi then gave me some information on the method that many Jews use today to secure adequate funds with which to operate their religious organizations. He went on to say that the activities of his synagogue were financially supported through the adoption of the "patron system" by its members. That is, families would buy seats in the synagogue for various prices each year. The rabbi mentioned that many of his congregation actually paid more than a tenth of their income to get better seats in the synagogue. This method for raising funds is perfectly proper (from the biblical point of view) if Jews wish to use it. This is because the money is paid to the synagogue and not to an ordained Levitical priesthood.
The final rabbi was correctly interpreting the teaching of the Holy Scripture. While many Christian ministers today teach that Christians may be in danger of missing salvation itself if they do not pay tithe to the church, Jewish rabbis know better than to say such a thing. They realize that it is biblically improper (actually, it is a blatant disobedience to the laws of the Bible) for anyone to pay or to receive the biblical tithe today. And any minister or ecclesiastical leader who uses the biblical tithe (or any one who pays to a minister the biblical tithe) is a sinner in the eyes of God.

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

FirstFRUITS and tithes has never been money or even time, scriprturally speaking.

It is people in high places making it up as they go along to suit their own purposes....and people down the road following along in their footsteps. IMHO

[winklebottom]

Originally Posted by joyful

Yes, this comes across as mean. It also makes it seem like you have very little knowledge of what stay at home moms actually do.

Believe me. I understand what a stay at home mom does!! Again, I was not trying to be mean, but what does "cleaning the pastors house" have to do with time spent given to the church. Do you feel all tithes should go directly to the pastor??? Here's another question..of which I will probably get blasted for on this forum...I feel sometime the working saint pulling in a paycheck carry a lot of weight that some saints could help out with. (Not directed at stay at home mom's only!!) What do you all think??

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by winklebottom

Believe me. I understand what a stay at home mom does!! Again, I was not trying to be mean, but what does "cleaning the pastors house" have to do with time spent given to the church. Do you feel all tithes should go directly to the pastor??? Here's another question..of which I will probably get blasted for on this forum...I feel sometime the working saint pulling in a paycheck carry a lot of weight that some saints could help out with. (Not directed at stay at home mom's only!!) What do you all think??

What I think is: A SAHM's FIRST and PRIMARY obligation is to her FAMILY, not the church. Secondly, time devoted to any charitable effort or endeavor, whether it be the church, the pastor, the poor, a homeless shelter, a community service, in my opinion, is time devoted to God.

Matthew 25:40 "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

Thirdly, there is NO precedence in scripture, wherein we are to transpose our service to God, the church and others exclusively toward the Pastor[instead].

Giving money to the church is, for many people, the easiest way to serve the church. Sometimes its a cop-out because they don't want to give their time, so they throw money in the offering pan and feel good about themselves.

Did you know, winklebottom, that Jewish women are excused from synagogue while their children are small, and that their husbands are allowed to offer their prayers for them? Because it is obvious that a mother of small children must take care of them first. It is her God-given obligation.

Scripture states that women are to be keepers at HOME. Not "keepers at church or the pastor's home." Don't get me wrong; I love my pastor and his wife. But my husband and children come first, and I can guarantee you that our pastor wouldn't have it any other way.

[winklebottom]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

What I think is: A SAHM's FIRST and PRIMARY obligation is to her FAMILY, not the church. Secondly, time devoted to any charitable effort or endeavor, whether it be the church, the pastor, the poor, a homeless shelter, a community service, in my opinion, is time devoted to God.

Matthew 25:40 "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

Thirdly, there is NO precedence in scripture, wherein we are to transpose our service to God, the church and others exclusively toward the Pastor[instead].

Giving money to the church is, for many people, the easiest way to serve the church. Sometimes its a cop-out because they don't want to give their time, so they throw money in the offering pan and feel good about themselves.

Did you know, winklebottom, that Jewish women are excused from synagogue while their children are small, and that their husbands are allowed to offer their prayers for them? Because it is obvious that a mother of small children must take care of them first. It is her God-given obligation.

Scripture states that women are to be keepers at HOME. Not "keepers at church or the pastor's home." Don't get me wrong; I love my pastor and his wife. But my husband and children come first, and I can guarantee you that our pastor wouldn't have it any other way.

Thank you. I honestly appreciate your answer. I DO pay my tithes (and also special offerings) every month, but it always seems there is a greater need than money in the church. I think the greatest thing people can do is spend some time witnessing.

[staysharp]

Tithing is as old as Methuselah!!! Literally and figuratively! The principle of tithing pre-dates the law and supercedes it. Tithing teaches discipline, dependance, loyalty and financial submission to God. Since the love of money is the root of all evil, the challenge for a Christian is to freely give without strings attached.
Our eternal salvation is by grace through faith. Anything that tampers with our faith in Christ can become salvific. This issue goes to the heart of liberty in Rom. 14.
Will our eternal souls be lost without tithing? No...but our spiritual growth and maturity will be deeply affected.
God loves a cheerful giver. Why? Because it comes from a heart of love and if you love Christ you will love His work and His body, including Godly men who labor to give their best in service to the kingdom. A full-time minister should be adequately compensated as in any other vocation. A Pastor is on call 24/7 and carries the burdens of his parishoners. He cries, laughs, drops whatever he is doing to insure his flock is well.

Modern Jews may be right under the law, but Judaism is not Christianity.