A Trinitarian Statement

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Once again the existence of this inane debate revolves around:

1. semantics over words such as persons, distinctions, modes, etc.
2. pride in presenting facts, figures,scripture, grammar, logic, scholarship and Church history while debunking the other side's facts, figures, logic, interpretation of scripture, grammar, scholarship and Church history. {I want to be right and prove you wrong while never admitting when I am wrong}
3. prejudices and hatreds based on a century old feud

eventually leading to more circular debates on:

4. the proper baptismal formula

and most often culminates in:

5. name calling, sensitivities hurt, and insults
---------------------------

In the end, this is what matters ... both sides whole heartedly agree and believe in:

1. One God
2.The Mighty God in Christ
3. Jesus is fully man and fully God
4. Jesus is the Son of God
5. Jesus died for our sins and was raised to give us new life.
6. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

Carry on ... lol.

Once again, I'll reiterate ... the minute I can fully explain and define an infinite and Almighty God ... He ceases to be God ....

I've become an idolater.

Wow...you got ALL that from Mizpeh asking for the Trinitarian definition of persons?

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I answered your question on another thread.

Jesus himself says that he and the Father are one.

Romans 8:9-11 describes the Spirit of him that raised Jesus from the dead as being Christ. IOW the Spirit of Christ raised Jesus Christ from the dead. And if we follow Trinitarian logic then the Spirit of him is one person and Jesus is another person which is not what this passage is saying.

Jesus' statement in its context isn't telling us that Jesus is the Father. The one (hen) is Neuter, not masculine. If Jesus was saying that he is the Father the word one would be heis which is masculine. Not to mention the literally Greek is saying, "We are One." Meaning in essence and nature, not in person. The reaction from the Jews tell us that by Jesus claiming that God was His Father was actually claiming to be equal with the Father..ie. God Himself. Jesus didn't disclaim this.

Joh 10:33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Let me try this again:


The equivocation of terms here is evident. Does this answer your question?
Your examples are not what I mean. I know you are being facetious. Especially with spiritual flesh!

You go ahead and try to decipher this definition of the Trinity and define the words, God and one, as you go. Because the definitions change and thus the ambiguity.

What is there to define? I can only show you scripture. Persons talk to each other, persons love each other, person have relationships with each other. All these apply to the Person of the Son and the Person of the Father. Natures are attributes; natures don't love or talk, or sing, or pray. Persons do. It really is that simple.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Wow...you got ALL that from Mizpeh asking for the Trinitarian definition of persons?

It's an assessment of many observations here and in life. Spot on.

Carry on in your little futile exercise.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Believer

What is there to define? I can only show you scripture. Persons talk to each other, persons love each other, person have relationships with each other. All these apply to the Person of the Son and the Person of the Father. Natures are attributes; natures don't love or talk, or sing, or pray. Persons do. It really is that simple.

What part of us is a person? Is it the soul? Is it the spirit? Is it the body? Is the soul, mind, body all part of human nature? If so where is the 'person'?

The Biblical definition of person is attributed to human beings. Look it up in the Bible for yourself.

You want to simplify your interpretation of what a 'person' is. Your definition is very much like CARM's, but your definition would include animals to a certain extent. So please develop your definition from the Bible if you would.

You wrote this:

I think the problem is that Oneness are using their own definition for the word "person" and not what it meant when it was first used to describe the distinctions. It was about the same time period that the terms “modes” were coined.

Can you show us from the original languages and early writings what was meant by the word, person, and when it was first coined, because your definition above does not do that.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

It's an assessment of many observations here and in life. Spot on.

Carry on in your little futile exercise.

Dan,

You are being very gullible.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Dan,

You are being very gullible.

Mizpeh if we're going to play soothsayer ... you're battling truths by being obstinate ... it's time you let go.

[oneness]

May I ad My 2 cents in this conversation?
I am a Jewish Messianic Believer in the ONE G-d of Israel.
We all do our best to understand HaShem in our limited Intellect. The fact will always remain He is past our finding out. If His ways are beyond our ways where does that leave us in understanding.
Trying to reconcile scriptures such as "the Father is Greater than I am" and "I and the Father are one"and again "if you have seen me you have seen the Father" have divided true believers for too long.
Yes G-d is One, but He is still Greater than a Person and Bigger than a manifestaton.We can not even get our brains around Quantim Physics and then we think we can understand and explain with all certainty The Great Creator?.....
I think The Apostle said it best " Great is the Mystery..."
"G-d was manifest in the flesh" which God? The ONLY G-d, the creator,the first cause, the Father of all eternity.
We have a lot to learn.
Just my humble opinion, take it for what it is worth...
Love In Messiah Yahshua

[iceniez]

I grew up catholic and did not understand how one God was three distinct persons. When I was introduced to oneness I learned that the Name was the real issue. That the Name of Jesus is the Name of the Father , Son and Holy Ghost.

[webdesigner]

I don't believe on Trinity doctrine anymore.. I do believe Jesus Christ is the Father God. As a former baptist, I confessed GOD is one but back on my mind contrary on what I confessed I believe God is a three separate person, as Jesus can be seen separate from God the father in heaven just like this image from Chick Publication



How about guys, how do you view GOD?