John3 and Romans2: Part2

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by donfriesen1

Paul says twice they have not the Word (Gospel) to produce the faith necessary to receive the new birth.

Sorry, but you are simply wrong here. Paul did NOT say "the gentiles which have not the Word/Gospel". He specifically says they have not the LAW, and the context is clearly the Sinaitic Covenant:

Romans 2:7,14 KJV
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: [14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:17-20 KJV
Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, [18] And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; [19] And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, [20] An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.


You aren't "reading between the lines", you are adding to and taking away from the Word of God, this is exactly how we get trinitarianism and every other false doctrine.

These Gentiles show the work of the law written in the heart, which is this:

Hebrews 8:10 KJV
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Remember, that without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD. And that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

Romans 3:9-10 KJV
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; [10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3:19 KJV
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 3:21-25 KJV
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; [24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: [25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Everybody is guilty, everybody needs faith in Jesus to escape the consequences of their sin. There is no "going to heaven apart from faith in Christ". (Never mind the fact nobody is going to heaven to begin with, but I am sure you get what I mean here.)

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Sorry, but you are simply wrong here. Paul did NOT say "the gentiles which have not the Word/Gospel". He specifically says they have not the LAW, and the context is clearly the Sinaitic Covenant:

Romans 2:7,14 KJV
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: [14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:17-20 KJV
Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, [18] And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; [19] And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, [20] An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.


You aren't "reading between the lines", you are adding to and taking away from the Word of God, this is exactly how we get trinitarianism and every other false doctrine.

These Gentiles show the work of the law written in the heart, which is this:

Hebrews 8:10 KJV
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Remember, that without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD. And that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

Romans 3:9-10 KJV
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; [10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3:19 KJV
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 3:21-25 KJV
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; [22] Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: [23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; [24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: [25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Everybody is guilty, everybody needs faith in Jesus to escape the consequences of their sin. There is no "going to heaven apart from faith in Christ". (Never mind the fact nobody is going to heaven to begin with, but I am sure you get what I mean here.)

Pretty tasty. Nice work

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Pretty tasty. Nice work

On a side note...

Suppose you have an old slab (tennis court), got grass growing up through cracks in it, not super level, etc. And you wanted to build a cinder block tool shed/garage type structure on that slab... how do you seal the cold joint where the blocks sit on the slab, so that water doesn't run under the blocks and into the shed area? Or is that just a losing proposition?

The slab area is much larger than the shed area would be, so the blocks would be situated pretty much smack in the middle of the old existing slab. So not really any increase in floor height going on...

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

On a side note...

Suppose you have an old slab (tennis court), got grass growing up through cracks in it, not super level, etc. And you wanted to build a cinder block tool shed/garage type structure on that slab... how do you seal the cold joint where the blocks sit on the slab, so that water doesn't run under the blocks and into the shed area? Or is that just a losing proposition?

The slab area is much larger than the shed area would be, so the blocks would be situated pretty much smack in the middle of the old existing slab. So not really any increase in floor height going on...

Me, I would take up the slab. My reason is that the existing slab will just continue to fail. Its main issue was the preparation of the ground prior to the form being built. Also if it had wire installed before the pour did they place the wire off the ground so that the wire would be in the correct placement to do its job. Lots of times they place the wire on the ground and just pour mud on top of it. It's not going to do anything laying on the ground under the hardened concrete. She will still crack as she hardens. Another issue is what was the original pour like? Was there too much water? There is a very good reason why Roman Concrete lasts for thousands of years. They understood how to mix, pour, build and form. To build a strong shed made from block, we need a strong foundation. My opinion is, the existing one has issues which lurk below the cracked slab.

There is only one foundation which we cannot remove.

That is Christ.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Me, I would take up the slab. My reason is that the existing slab will just continue to fail. Its main issue was the preparation of the ground prior to the form being built. Also if it had wire installed before the pour did they place the wire off the ground so that the wire would be in the correct placement to do its job. Lots of times they place the wire on the ground and just pour mud on top of it. It's not going to do anything laying on the ground under the hardened concrete. She will still crack as she hardens. Another issue is what was the original pour like? Was there too much water? There is a very good reason why Roman Concrete lasts for thousands of years. They understood how to mix, pour, build and form. To build a strong shed made from block, we need a strong foundation. My opinion is, the existing one has issues which lurk below the cracked slab.

There is only one foundation which we cannot remove.

That is Christ.

Amen!

I heard Roman concrete had lime in it, so as it cracked and water infiltrated it would react with the lime and calcify, sealing the cracks and making the cement stronger. So it would last literally thousands of years. Unlike our modern more advanced concrete mixes which have a suggested life span of 50 years.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Me, I would take up the slab. My reason is that the existing slab will just continue to fail. Its main issue was the preparation of the ground prior to the form being built.

Ok, speaking hypothetically...

Say you have a yard with a heavy clay soil content, very expansive. And you wanted to build a barrel vault shaped structure out of ferrocement. Think thin shell concrete Quonset hut. So, alternatives to removing the soil, bringing in new soil for a building pad, then footers and a slab?

Something like this maybe...

Excavate the topsoil to remove all vegetation. Import clean fill dirt and mix in with portland cement and rototill it, to make soilcrete. This would be built up to about 6 inches above existing grade, to prevent water from flowing on top of the soilcrete "floor" from the surrounding terrain. Meanwhile, dig a footer trench around this area, put in french drain to drain water to one corner and away from building site. Fill with rubble, then place CMU block on top to make a "stem wall" (one block high) around perimeter. Place rebar in CMU holes and fill with concrete, rebar extending out of block tops, then tie in rebar hoops extending from one side to the other. Tie in lathe or mesh, chicken wire, etc, across the hoops and around the other two sides making a barrel vault with two vertical walls (north and south walls vertical, east and west sides are the sides of the vault or hoop roof), frame doors and windows in the vertical walls, then start slathering a latex-cement mix, then paint.

Only thing is do I need a vapor barrier? Moisture barrier under the soilcrete? Or on top? And, how do I put a vapor barrier under the block without sealing off the rubble trench and french drain defeating its purpose? Or am I over thinking it?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Ok, speaking hypothetically...

Say you have a yard with a heavy clay soil content, very expansive. And you wanted to build a barrel vault shaped structure out of ferrocement. Think thin shell concrete Quonset hut. So, alternatives to removing the soil, bringing in new soil for a building pad, then footers and a slab?

Something like this maybe...

Excavate the topsoil to remove all vegetation. Import clean fill dirt and mix in with portland cement and rototill it, to make soilcrete. This would be built up to about 6 inches above existing grade, to prevent water from flowing on top of the soilcrete "floor" from the surrounding terrain. Meanwhile, dig a footer trench around this area, put in french drain to drain water to one corner and away from building site. Fill with rubble, then place CMU block on top to make a "stem wall" (one block high) around perimeter. Place rebar in CMU holes and fill with concrete, rebar extending out of block tops, then tie in rebar hoops extending from one side to the other. Tie in lathe or mesh, chicken wire, etc, across the hoops and around the other two sides making a barrel vault with two vertical walls (north and south walls vertical, east and west sides are the sides of the vault or hoop roof), frame doors and windows in the vertical walls, then start slathering a latex-cement mix, then paint.

Only thing is do I need a vapor barrier? Moisture barrier under the soilcrete? Or on top? And, how do I put a vapor barrier under the block without sealing off the rubble trench and french drain defeating its purpose? Or am I over thinking it?

This is my question. What are you building this structure for? You might believe you are over engineering the structure, yet if we know what the purpose it will be used for, then we can know how much to put into it. Like if it’s being used to store rakes and shovels, or if it is going to withstand a tornado. What is the hypothetical use of this hypothetical structure?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

This is my question. What are you building this structure for? You might believe you are over engineering the structure, yet if we know what the purpose it will be used for, then we can know how much to put into it. Like if it’s being used to store rakes and shovels, or if it is going to withstand a tornado. What is the hypothetical use of this hypothetical structure?

A boxing gym, for use when the weather doesn't allow use of the great outdoors. I need a place to hang several heavy bags without being destroyed by the elements, and a place to do drills and technical sparring when the ground is a muddy mess from rain, or possibly after sunset when the bugs are out and about. So not a living space, just a workout space. Eventually the floor would be covered with padded mats (like a wrestling mat) for grappling practice.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

A boxing gym, for use when the weather doesn't allow use of the great outdoors. I need a place to hang several heavy bags without being destroyed by the elements, and a place to do drills and technical sparring when the ground is a muddy mess from rain, or possibly after sunset when the bugs are out and about. So not a living space, just a workout space. Eventually the floor would be covered with padded mats (like a wrestling mat) for grappling practice.

I'll tell you this, if you believe you are overthinking this now, wait until you get to the roof. You have gym mats on the floor, will you be building a ring? Under those mats, will you be placing 8mm gym flooring? Will you have any pieces of equipment like a functional trainer or smith machine? Power cage or treadmill? Which will need electricity and air conditioner and fans. Not to mention windows. I forgot to ask square footage of this building. Is this just for you or the church family?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I'll tell you this, if you believe you are overthinking this now, wait until you get to the roof. You have gym mats on the floor, will you be building a ring? Under those mats, will you be placing 8mm gym flooring? Will you have any pieces of equipment like a functional trainer or smith machine? Power cage or treadmill? Which will need electricity and air conditioner and fans. Not to mention windows. I forgot to ask square footage of this building. Is this just for you or the church family?

Just for me and the kids. I was thinking something like 30x30, or 32x34, or 28x32, somewhere along those lines. The roof would be a ferrocement barrel vault, so two sides and the roof would be one piece (the roof serves as the two load bearing walls) with the two vertical walls not load bearing but the whole thing still "monolithic" in that the whole thing is steel mesh with thin shell concrete (technically cement, I guess?).

No machines, I would be building a heavy bag rack to hold 4 bags max, likely out of either 4x4 or maybe 4x6 posts bolted together in a square frame and just sitting on the floor. The weight of the structure and the square shape should maintain its integrity although I suspect the vibration from hitting the bags may require the rack to be repositioned every now and then back to its original spot. No electricity, I would simply run and extension cord to a shop fan in the summer and use a propane heater in the winter if needed. I can use those cheap solar powered rechargeable lawn lights for lighting at night or even tiki torches for that real old school effect.

Mats would be mma type puzzle piece mats or a used wrestling mat if I can find one on the cheap, but that would be for later, we're currently in boxing mode not grappling mode right now.

Like I said, a ferrocement Quonset hut type structure. I only thought of ferrocement because the price of lumber has been through the roof since 2020, and steel sheeting is even more expensive. Did you know corrugated barn tin is now more of a designer luxury item? And getting curved corrugated sheet metal is next to impossible here in the US. If we lived in the UK I could literally just order the stuff from over a dozen suppliers and get it delivered, but alas here in the citadel of freedom and capitalism can't get it at all.

I am also thinking ferrocement might not be any cheaper. In India? Sure thing, cheapest way to build, even peasants can do it. Here in the US? Practically have to be landed gentry to be able to afford anything sturdier than cardboard.