I John 5:8?

[Scott Pitta]

Our understanding of Koine Greek has rather expanded since Thayer put pen to paper. This included a better understanding of Koine grammar, word use, and available literature.

That is what my Greek professor told us right before she told us to bite the bullet and purchase the Walter Bauer lexicon.

Buy a used one for nearly the same price as a new Thayer's. But be warned: it is not keyed to a Strong's concordance. One must actually be able to read Greek to use it.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Our understanding of Koine Greek has rather expanded since Thayer put pen to paper. This included a better understanding of Koine grammar, word use, and available literature.

That is what my Greek professor told us right before she told us to bite the bullet and purchase the Walter Bauer lexicon.

Buy a used one for nearly the same price as a new Thayer's. But be warned: it is not keyed to a Strong's concordance. One must actually be able to read Greek to use it.

So, putting this into perspective. I don't speak or read Greek.

Going out on a limb, but I doubt the larger population of the Christian world does either.

We have the printed Word - lots of translations.

Does NOT speaking or reading Greek or Hebrew, for that matter, change anything that we already know about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and does NOT speaking or reading Greek or Hebrew jeopardize our salvation in any way?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

So, putting this into perspective. I don't speak or read Greek.

Going out on a limb, but I doubt the larger population of the Christian world does either.

We have the printed Word - lots of translations.

Does NOT speaking or reading Greek or Hebrew, for that matter, change anything that we already know about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ and does NOT speaking or reading Greek or Hebrew jeopardize our salvation in any way?

A old Abuelita who was with Brother Morley, Sister Sallie Lemons (Brother Morley's wife, a Brother Bill Drost when they were in Colombia. Could only read the scripture in Spanish, no Greek, no Hebrew, no Aramaic. Just Spanish. She knew the Word backward and forward. Jesus One God, Jesus Name Baptism, Holiness unto the Lord, and the power of the Holy Ghost infilling with speaking in other tongues all with book, chapter, and verse.
No one has to be a Greek scholar to get some Jesus name understanding. You just need the Holy Ghost desire to seek the truth not matter what the cost. I was at Abuelita's bedside when she passed on, and her grandson and myself prayed with her while she spoke in tongues and magnified the Lord in Jesus name as she passed on.

[Scott Pitta]

My only point is the Bauer lexicon is not keyed to s Strong's concordance. So if you cannot read Greek, it would be difficult to use.

As far as faith is concerned, one language is good enough.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Please demonstrate that with examples.

I guess you are fasting from coffee?

[peter83]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

The Interlinear:

"the Spirit and the water and the blood also these three in one are" I John 5:8

Some say that "These three are one" was added and not original to the text.

If a person were reading the New International Version, this is what they would see:

"the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement." (NIV)


Comments?

On earth the Spirit , the water (propably the baptism) and the blood of Jesus (his life,blood=life) give testimony for the Son of God.
Water=His birth (others say is the baptism that saves us and give us testimony of remission)
Blood=His Death. His blood is his life on earth (the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground)
Spirit=the Holy Spirit that God send to witness of the alive Son of God.(His Spirit is here.)

Now the strange thing is the grammatical order :
"The spirit the water and the blood also these three in one are"
Some people claim the because the "these" is on masculine does not make sense so the text could also include the "three that bear record in heaves".
But otherwise i dont think something serious about.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by peter83

On earth the Spirit , the water (propably the baptism) and the blood of Jesus (his life,blood=life) give testimony for the Son of God.
Water=His birth (others say is the baptism that saves us and give us testimony of remission)
Blood=His Death. His blood is his life on earth (the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground)
Spirit=the Holy Spirit that God send to witness of the alive Son of God.(His Spirit is here.)

Now the strange thing is the grammatical order :
"The spirit the water and the blood also these three in one are"
Some people claim the because the "these" is on masculine does not make sense so the text could also include the "three that bear record in heaves".
But otherwise i dont think something serious about.

Does it not mean "these three are into the one", as in these three things point to the same thing, or belong to the same thing?

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
(1 John 5:6-10)

Seems to be saying that the water, Spirit, and the blood are the witness of God that He has testified of His Son, and that all true Christians have that witness in themselves. Meaning, all true Christians have the water, Spirit, and the blood in their lives. And from other Scriptures, this appears to be referring to water baptism, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (by His blood), and receiving the Holy Spirit.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Does it not mean "these three are into the one", as in these three things point to the same thing, or belong to the same thing?

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
(1 John 5:6-10)

Seems to be saying that the water, Spirit, and the blood are the witness of God that He has testified of His Son, and that all true Christians have that witness in themselves. Meaning, all true Christians have the water, Spirit, and the blood in their lives. And from other Scriptures, this appears to be referring to water baptism, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (by His blood), and receiving the Holy Spirit.

That's the way I see it. And to tell you the truth I got a strong revelation off 1 John 5:8. It showed me where the blood is applied, as people argue over this all the time. Without being born of water, and Spirit there is no blood. But these three agree in one. So someone can say they are saved, but you don't have to wonder. There is 3 witnesses upon this Earth that agree in one, if any is missing then they are not saved. No ifs ands or buts...

I got a revelation of that God allowed that verse to give you Spiritual discernment. But did they add that, because 1 John 5:7 seems totally out of place?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Does it not mean "these three are into the one", as in these three things point to the same thing, or belong to the same thing?

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
(1 John 5:6-10)

Seems to be saying that the water, Spirit, and the blood are the witness of God that He has testified of His Son, and that all true Christians have that witness in themselves. Meaning, all true Christians have the water, Spirit, and the blood in their lives. And from other Scriptures, this appears to be referring to water baptism, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (by His blood), and receiving the Holy Spirit.

The CEV places the water and blood coming from Jesus' side:

"Water and blood came out from the side of Jesus Christ. It wasn't just water, but water and blood. The Spirit tells about this, because the Spirit is truthful."

What is the passage actually saying when it says, "he that came by..."

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

A old Abuelita who was with Brother Morley, Sister Sallie Lemons (Brother Morley's wife, a Brother Bill Drost when they were in Colombia. Could only read the scripture in Spanish, no Greek, no Hebrew, no Aramaic. Just Spanish. She knew the Word backward and forward. Jesus One God, Jesus Name Baptism, Holiness unto the Lord, and the power of the Holy Ghost infilling with speaking in other tongues all with book, chapter, and verse.
No one has to be a Greek scholar to get some Jesus name understanding. You just need the Holy Ghost desire to seek the truth not matter what the cost. I was at Abuelita's bedside when she passed on, and her grandson and myself prayed with her while she spoke in tongues and magnified the Lord in Jesus name as she passed on.

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

My only point is the Bauer lexicon is not keyed to s Strong's concordance. So if you cannot read Greek, it would be difficult to use.

As far as faith is concerned, one language is good enough.

I agree with you both. It just appears from reading posts through the years, we have people who criticize those that do NOT speak or read the original languages, when it wasn't necessary to do so all along. Just sayin'... That was what I was trying to get at.