2 Thess 2 - Page 4

Esaias · #31 12-14-2017, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowas

Right! I've seen some actually think the "you" Paul had visited with, and was speaking to back then, is written to them them, and they weren't even there at the time. lol

I wonder if you checked those verses I mentioned, to see what was addressed to "them back then"?

Sean · #32 12-14-2017, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowas

Right! I've seen some actually think the "you" Paul had visited with, and was speaking to back then, is written to them them, and they weren't even there at the time. lol

Right, Paul would never dream in a million years that his letter would be read or adhered to by anyone else than only the exactly intended audience.

Michael The Disciple · #33 12-15-2017, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Paul said the man of sin sits in the temple of God. Not in a temple dedicated to himself.

So explain this please.

Daniel 11:36-37

36And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Does not this sound like the same thing Paul said to the Thessalonians about the man of sin?

Is it not in the context of the great tribulation and the resurrection of the dead which happens in the very next chapter?

And please read this. A few verses later and in the same context.

45And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

A palace that belongs to him. The man who says HE IS ABOVE EVERY GOD.

This palace or temple belongs to the man of sin. He obviously will sit in it declaring himself God.

Again look at context. The verses that EXPRESSLY follow verse 45 which states the tabernacle of his palace will stand in the glorious holy mountain.

The next 3 verses say this:

Daniel 12:1-3

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Its all IN THE SAME CONTEXT.

The evil king/man of sin. His palace sitting where it ought not in Jerusalem. The great tribulation and resurrection of the dead. Its all there.

JamesGlen · #34 12-15-2017, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

I wonder if you checked those verses I mentioned, to see what was addressed to "them back then"?

I did.
Tis written to the Thess’s, and while some of its contents are for them in particular at that time, some is also applicable to ALL the brethren in Christ, throughout the “thus far 2000 yr NT”.

It seems the primary contention is, and has been, in regard to where all that line of distinction is, and can be, drawn.

Everyone thinks they have it figured out, and probably no one does…

Esaias · #35 12-15-2017, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So explain this please.

Daniel 11:36-37

36And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Does not this sound like the same thing Paul said to the Thessalonians about the man of sin?

Is it not in the context of the great tribulation and the resurrection of the dead which happens in the very next chapter?

And please read this. A few verses later and in the same context.

45And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

A palace that belongs to him. The man who says HE IS ABOVE EVERY GOD.

This palace or temple belongs to the man of sin. He obviously will sit in it declaring himself God.

Again look at context. The verses that EXPRESSLY follow verse 45 which states the tabernacle of his palace will stand in the glorious holy mountain.

The next 3 verses say this:

Daniel 12:1-3

1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Its all IN THE SAME CONTEXT.

The evil king/man of sin. His palace sitting where it ought not in Jerusalem. The great tribulation and resurrection of the dead. Its all there.

Paul said the man of sin sits in the temple (naos) of God. There is no way around that, brother. The man of sin is the "son of perdition", a title that is used elsewhere only of Judas, the fallen apostle. Showing the man of sin is a false elder in the church of God.

Until you understand the plain explanations of Paul, you will misunderstand the apocalyptic visions of Daniel.

You are jumping around in Daniel. Begin with ch 2, then progress through the book to add understanding, to build a picture of what was to take place.

THEN work through the gospels, UP TO the Olivet prophecy. Then tackle that. Then look at the rest of NT prophecy. A picture emerges, but you won't see it if you already have a picture painted for you by popular booksellers.

Sean · #36 12-15-2017, 09:22 AM

Quote:

You are jumping around in Daniel.

Quote:

Begin with ch 2, then progress through the book to add understanding, to build a picture of what was to take place.

THEN work through the gospels, UP TO the Olivet prophecy. Then tackle that. Then look at the rest of NT prophecy. A picture emerges,

LOL

Michael The Disciple · #37 12-15-2017, 11:54 AM

Quote:

A picture emerges, but you won't see it if you already have a picture painted for you by popular booksellers.

Oh really? Just for your info I have never heard of another human being who teaches about Daniel 11:45 being the temple Paul mentions in 2 Thess.

If you are aware of anyone that does please send me their phone number, address, or link. I'm sure there are some out there. Its just I dont read the "pop" books.

I read a gob of them until 1980. Since then I doubt if I have bought more than 10.

Michael The Disciple · #38 12-15-2017, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Paul said the man of sin sits in the temple (naos) of God. There is no way around that, brother. The man of sin is the "son of perdition", a title that is used elsewhere only of Judas, the fallen apostle. Showing the man of sin is a false elder in the church of God.

Im not going around it. The temple of God Paul refers to is exactly what Jesus refers to here.

First he mentions the falling away.

12Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. 13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Mark 12:12-13

Then he mentions the abomination of desolation.

14But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

So to understand Jesus version of what happens IMMEDIATELY BEFORE HE COMES....he points us to the prophet Daniel and mentions something STANDING WHERE IT OUGHT NOT. Amen?

Daniel 11:45

And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

I asked YOU to explain this. Instead you reinterated what you already said and made no attempt to expain the simple fact that between Daniel 11:36 and Daniel 12:2.....eleven verses, we have theses 4 things mentioned.

Verse 36...A man who exalts HIMSELF as god and above every god.

Verse 45...He has a palace/temple placed STANDING WHERE IT OUGHT NOT......in the glorious land specifically in Jerusalem.

12:1...A time of trouble such as never was to that time or never will be again. Easily compared to what Jesus said would occur just before he comes. See Mark 13:19

12:2...The resurrection of the dead.

Its all there. The end time scenario. Not from a "pop" book but by doing what Jesus pointed us to do. Searching the Prophet Daniel for something STANDING WHERE IT OUGHT NOT.

How do you explain this?

Esaias · #39 12-15-2017, 02:34 PM

Busy dealing with a 911 address change, will respond later.

Bowas · #40 12-15-2017, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Right, Paul would never dream in a million years that his letter would be read or adhered to by anyone else than only the exactly intended audience.

Not sure if Paul thought it would be read and intended to be for those the letter not addressed to and directed towards, but it doesn't mean we can take liberties and think he really had us in mind when he wrote it specifically to those he addressed it to. If intended for others, he surely would have used different words instead of "you," he could have said "they' or "them," or "whosoever."