Is a marriage license a scam?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Yep it is disgusting. They are pushing also to lower the age of consent too. Canada did.

What are they considering lowering to?

The age for consent here in Ohio is 16 years old. According to, McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, in Judaism, boys could marry or make religious vows at 14-years-old and girls at 12-years-old.

What do you believe the age of consent should be?

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Man's sinful nature knows no bounds. How do you associate this issue with this topic? I'm just curious.

Same sex marriage has open the door. It's about love!!!

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What are they considering lowering to?

The age for consent here in Ohio is 16 years old. According to, McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia, in Judaism, boys could marry or make religious vows at 14-years-old and girls at 12-years-old.

What do you believe the age of consent should be?

N.A.M.B.LA wants it lowered.

The purpose of lowering the age of consent is to satisfy their lust. If I could set it / it would be 18.

I think Canada lowered it to 14 could be 16. Reason being so boys can --------------I'll leave it there.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Same sex marriage has open the door. It's about love!!!

Actually, gay marriage didn't open the door.

When marriage ceased being an issue of common law and the government began requiring a license, it became a "civil institution". The effort was to require a license and then deny licenses to mixed couples to prohibit interracial marriages. However, it backfired. In 1967 the SCOTUS ruled in Lovings vs. Virginia that the state couldn't discriminate on the basis of race or ethnicity with regards to the issuance of a marriage license. This of course, led to gay marriage, seeing that the government can't discriminate against a person based on their gender or sexuality.

Had marriage been left to common law, it would be society and churches that recognized a marriage and not the government, who is legally bound to be impartial.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Rudy

N.A.M.B.LA wants it lowered.

The purpose of lowering the age of consent is to satisfy their lust. If I could set it / it would be 18.

I think Canada lowered it to 14 could be 16. Reason being so boys can --------------I'll leave it there.

I don't know... I'm just going to ramble a bit and let my thoughts flow on this one.... you can share your thoughts too.

God designed us to be ready for copulation and reproduction as a result of puberty. Never before in human history has mankind asked that young people wait so long before getting married. The end result is essentially society battling instinct. In biblical times, the age at which a couple could marry was around 14 for boys and 13 for girls (McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia). Think about it... nature (the way God made us) makes us ready for copulation/marriage at about 13 and 14. Ancient societies typically arranged marriages or allowed young people to marry at about 13 and 14. If one was unmarried by 19, they were considered an old maid. In our modern society we expect young people to deny their desire to couple throughout high school at the very least (roughly 17 or 18). If they go to college we expect them to deny their desires to couple until they are at least around 23 or 24. It doesn't surprise me that we have so many unwed mothers, young people slipping around, etc. I'm not saying that it is right, I'm just saying that it's no surprise. But lowering the age of consent would only complicate this. I'm just mentioning it.

Also in America we have this strange sense of wanting to keep kids "innocent". I'm not sure where this came from. Because throughout America's history at about 13 and 14 kids helped manage the home, hunt, fish, and helped work in their father's trade. Shakespeare's Juliet was only 13. And in Medieval and early modern European societies they married little girls off as young as 7 years old, although consummation wasn't until after she entered puberty. English common law set the age of consent at 12 in 1275 and lowered to 10 in 1576. The ages of consent in the American colonies were generally set at 10 or 12. Until the mid 1960s, the legal age of consent in Delaware was 7. However, this doesn't mean that the average American married that young. Typically the average American married between 21-26.

Of course, during some of these periods the average life expectancy was 45. So, there was a social reason for some of the younger marriages.

In biblical times young children worked the farm, the goats, etc. They knew the birds and the bees rather early because they worked with it. Also, families typically lived in one room homes wherein the room was converted from living area to sleeping area each evening. This means that families primarily slept in one room. Most likely young people were well aware of what was going bump in the night. Lastly, as with most ancient societies, Israel had public bathing areas. Families would gather, strip down, and bathe together in a local river or local pool. They also saw public executions and saw war first hand. I'm willing to wager that most 15 year olds had the maturity that we typically don't see until around 20 to 25 years of age.

But, having grown up in Ohio, with the age of consent being 16, I can't see it being lowered beyond 16.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't know... I'm just going to ramble a bit and let my thoughts flow on this one.... you can share your thoughts too.

God designed us to be ready for copulation and reproduction as a result of puberty. Never before in human history has mankind asked that young people wait so long before getting married. The end result is essentially society battling instinct. In biblical times, the age at which a couple could marry was around 14 for boys and 13 for girls (McClintock and Strong Encyclopedia). Think about it... nature (the way God made us) makes us ready for copulation/marriage at about 13 and 14. Ancient societies typically arranged marriages or allowed young people to marry at about 13 and 14. If one was unmarried by 19, they were considered an old maid. In our modern society we expect young people to deny their desire to couple throughout high school at the very least (roughly 17 or 18). If they go to college we expect them to deny their desires to couple until they are at least around 23 or 24. It doesn't surprise me that we have so many unwed mothers, young people slipping around, etc. I'm not saying that it is right, I'm just saying that it's no surprise. But lowering the age of consent would only complicate this. I'm just mentioning it.

Also in America we have this strange sense of wanting to keep kids "innocent". I'm not sure where this came from. Because throughout America's history at about 13 and 14 kids helped manage the home, hunt, fish, and helped work in their father's trade. Shakespeare's Juliet was only 13. And in Medieval and early modern European societies they married little girls off as young as 7 years old, although consummation wasn't until after she entered puberty. English common law set the age of consent at 12 in 1275 and lowered to 10 in 1576. The ages of consent in the American colonies were generally set at 10 or 12. Until the mid 1960s, the legal age of consent in Delaware was 7. However, this doesn't mean that the average American married that young. Typically the average American married between 21-26.

Of course, during some of these periods the average life expectancy was 45. So, there was a social reason for some of the younger marriages.

In biblical times young children worked the farm, the goats, etc. They knew the birds and the bees rather early because they worked with it. Also, families typically lived in one room homes wherein the room was converted from living area to sleeping area each evening. This means that families primarily slept in one room. Most likely young people were well aware of what was going bump in the night. Lastly, as with most ancient societies, Israel had public bathing areas. Families would gather, strip down, and bathe together in a local river or local pool. They also saw public executions and saw war first hand. I'm willing to wager that most 15 year olds had the maturity that we typically don't see until around 20 to 25 years of age.

But, having grown up in Ohio, with the age of consent being 16, I can't see it being lowered beyond 16.

Aquilla, I don't see the use of varying groups did this or that as a guide. There is no-way children can make good choices concerning their sexuality and marriage. We see now the results of free love that has confused so many.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Aquilla, I don't see the use of varying groups did this or that as a guide. There is no-way children can make good choices concerning their sexuality and marriage. We see now the results of free love that has confused so many.

There's nothing new under the Sun.

And I agree, kids today are not prepared to make good choices regarding sexuality and marriage. I couldn't see the age of consent being lower than 16.

I'm just leery of the state intruding on the more intimate issues of human beings like sexuality and marriage.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

There's nothing new under the Sun.

And I agree, kids today are not prepared to make good choices regarding sexuality and marriage. I couldn't see the age of consent being lower than 16.

I'm just leery of the state intruding on the more intimate issues of human beings like sexuality and marriage.

it's a wonder that government hasn't required a permit for dating.

Ministers attaching themselves to government via a license is a little alarming. The government allows the slaughter of the unborn, same sex marriage, endless wars and so on. And use a ministers license to perform Marriages. It's like getting a license from the Nazis.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Rudy

it's a wonder that government hasn't required a permit for dating.

Ministers attaching themselves to government via a license is a little alarming. The government allows the slaughter of the unborn, same sex marriage, endless wars and so on. And use a ministers license to perform Marriages. It's like getting a license from the Nazis.

None of our elders are licensed with the government. We primarily bless couples, we've had one Quaker style wedding, and we advise that if a couple wishes to have the civil benefits of marriage, they pursue a civil marriage at the courthouse prior to any church related blessings or ceremonies.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Aquila

None of our elders are licensed with the government. We primarily bless couples, we've had one Quaker style wedding, and we advise that if a couple wishes to have the civil benefits of marriage, they pursue a civil marriage at the courthouse prior to any church related blessings or ceremonies.

Overall, I think your perspective on this is excellent, especially about eschewing any government license. Earlier you said:

Originally Posted by Aquila

We encourage couples to seek civil marriage on their own.

Which sounds different than above. This means receiving a license, and thus acknowledging the authority to license. It seems like you only "encourage" those who want the civil "benefits".

What is your position on the name change question, informally and legally?
Oh, I see you touched on that a bit.

Originally Posted by Aquila

However, while there is no product whatsoever, there are benefits and services. For example, a woman's name is changed through the process. Not to mention the merging of all financial, medical, along with legal rights, and entitlements. But many couples don't care about those things or prefer to handle things through wills and powers of attorney.

Thanks!

Steven