What is the GOSPEL?

[MarkBelosa]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I agree that is the Good message. But how that good message is related to individuals looks different and is a little more than just that you are forgiven. Rather more and two the point how and what is the relation to the kingdom of God.

In fact the Jews were not looking to forgiveness of sins as much as a king, and kingdom. After all their sins were forgiven through the sacrifice of the law, in a manner of speaking.

We cannot get away from the message both Christ instructed his disciples to proclaim and John proclaimed. The kingdom of God has come.

In Acts 2 Peter pointed out two facts, first that what they had received was what Joel had prophesied. Two that the Jesus that they had crucified God had made both Lord and Christ and sat on the throne of David, fulfilling the prophesy made by David of old. Hence we have the preaching of the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Try and get this next statement. These were the ones physically responsible for the crucifixion. When they ask "what must we do" it was in response to that fact. And it was to that fact they were commanded to repent.

Neither to the Samaritans nor the house of Cornelius was this direct command to repent preached rather simply Christ and his kingdom and belief in him. Simply put the Gospel was that Christ had died rose again and his Kingdom had come. And belief in that was entrance into his kingdom.

I can agree with you, partially, and I like that we are trying to take Scriptures in the proper context. But are you saying that the message of repentance is not an essential part of the preaching of the gospel and entrance to the kingdom of God?

What about the following Scriptures where John the Baptist and our Lord Jesus preached repentance and faith in the gospel?

Matthew 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 1:14-15 King James Version (KJV)

14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Also, when Jesus gave the Great Commission, did he say that the message of repentance was to be preached ONLY to the crowd in Jerusalem?

Luke 24:46-47 King James Version (KJV)

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Just because the word "repent" or "repentance" was not mentioned explicitly when Phillip preached to the Samaritans and Peter to the Gentiles, doesn't mean that they didn't. Jesus's instruction was to preach the same message to all all types of people, everywhere.

Finally, look at this passage in Acts 11. When Peter told the story to his Jewish brothers in Jerusalem, of how Cornelius and his household got saved, they associated repentance with the new birth experience.

Acts 11:17-18King James Version (KJV)

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Jews, Samaritans, Gentiles all received and obeyed the same plan of salvation, wouldn't you agree?

Now I know this thread is about defining the word gospel. I don't think we can talk about it and not talk about a salvation plan simply because it is "the power of God unto salvation." It's not like we're stretching it to mean something totally different or irrelevant.

Yes, we can all agree that it means good news, and as votivesoul mentioned there are certain elements involved. But for the purpose of this conversation, can we just all agree that it is centered on the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

What that means to the Jews and Gentiles, whether as groups of people or as individuals, can probably be worded in several ways, but can we all agree that:

The gospel is God's answer to the problem of sin. It's good news because it provides us a way (the only way in fact) to enter the kingdom of God, and get deliverance from the penalty and power of sin. It involves faith in Jesus Christ, acknowledging Him as Lord, God and King and believing that He has paid the price for our redemption when he died, got buried and rose from the grave.

I could go on and try to "stretch" it to say that involves repentance and the New Birth experience, but I think I have already my point. There are plenty of supporting scriptures to prove that it is the Biblical way of identifying oneself with the gospel. How else can one "obey" it?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Jito463

You're right, and some do over emphasize the sign over the reason for it. Just because some people lose focus of what's important, doesn't mean that tongues as the initial evidence isn't true, it just means we need to be mindful that we keep our hearts on what really matters.

In any of my postings, have I ever suggested seeking after tongues? No, because I fervently believe that tongues simply will occur when one receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost for the first time.

Don't confuse cause with affect.

The Bible teaches us not to seek after signs, and this is true. It does not say, however, that we should ignore them or not be mindful of them, it just says not to seek them.

I've never said that tongues are not to follow as a sign of the HG.

I have said that seeking the sign is the wrong approach. Preach the gospel, the message of the apostles, and signs will follow.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by MarkBelosa

Now I know this thread is about defining the word gospel. I don't think we can talk about it and not talk about a salvation plan simply because it is "the power of God unto salvation." It's not like we're stretching it to mean something totally different or irrelevant.

Yes, we can all agree that it means good news, and as votivesoul mentioned there are certain elements involved. But for the purpose of this conversation, can we just all agree that it is centered on the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

What that means to the Jews and Gentiles, whether as groups of people or as individuals, can probably be worded in several ways, but can we all agree that:

The gospel is God's answer to the problem of sin. It's good news because it provides us a way (the only way in fact) to enter the kingdom of God, and get deliverance from the penalty and power of sin. It involves faith in Jesus Christ, acknowledging Him as Lord, God and King and believing that He has paid the price for our redemption when he died, got buried and rose from the grave.

I could go on and try to "stretch" it to say that involves repentance and the New Birth experience, but I think I have already my point. There are plenty of supporting scriptures to prove that it is the Biblical way of identifying oneself with the gospel. How else can one "obey" it?

I've always thought it was interesting that Paul mentioned that he preached the gospel of uncircumcision, while Peter preached the gospel of circumcision. It seems that different approaches of preaching the gospel were used to reach different two different groups of people, the Jews and Gentiles.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Yet, in every reference to anyone being saved, repentance/baptism are mentioned and so we can conclude that salvation must include those two elements, even as Mark 16:16 states. Signs followed those that believed, without a doubt.

[Godsdrummer]

I like how you have responded to my post, with grace and a spirit of discussion and not confrontation.
That being said, I feel we must first define the meaning of repentance. I believe if you look the work up in the Greek we can agree it means a change of direction. What it does not mean IMO is a declaration of being sorry for sin. That is a given. When one changes direction, that should be done for the very fact that you believe the way you once were was wrong and you are turning over a new leaf.
To keep this as brief as possible, I will not present scripture, I think we all can quote the scriptures that would pertain to what I am going to say as I say it.
The cross took away sin, period. For all the world. In other words, my sins have been forgiven already it is a done fact because that is what the blood of the cross did, for all mankind. Does that mean every one is going to heaven? Of course not. One must accept forgiveness by faith. And here is where I differ from most apostolic's. When we accept by faith that we are forgiven we are "saved". We go on to receive baptism as a personal declaration of our belief in Christ, and we will receive the promise of the HG.

As I just gave my belief of what I believe is the salvational plan. Let me add further thoughts. When the house of Cornelius received the good news. They were given the message of the resurrection and death of Christ. With the words all that believe will receive the HG.
Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Now let me ask you to take the words of Peter in chapter 11 and what happened as described here in chapter 10, can you honestly say that repentance as defined by Apostolics, was required? Can the HG be given to a person that has not had their sin remitted?

I can agree with the bolded part, it comes down to belief.

As I said above yes it involves repentance in the element of making a change in doing right when you are doing wrong. And Baptism is how one identifies with Christ. In other words IMO repentance and baptism are subsequent to salvation.

Romans 4

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I've always thought it was interesting that Paul mentioned that he preached the gospel of uncircumcision, while Peter preached the gospel of circumcision. It seems that different approaches of preaching the gospel were used to reach different two different groups of people, the Jews and Gentiles.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Yet, in every reference to anyone being saved, repentance/baptism are mentioned and so we can conclude that salvation must include those two elements, even as Mark 16:16 states. Signs followed those that believed, without a doubt.

As I presented above, concerning repentance and baptism, both were what one did after belief. Faith was what "saved". To say the Samaritans were not saved having been baptized believing, or the house of Cornelius were not saved when they receive the HG before baptism is in MO twisting and adding to the word of God.

[MarkBelosa]

@GD Will respond to your post tomorrow, I'm just curious to know more about your thoughts on the new birth experience as described in John 3?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I like how you have responded to my post, with grace and a spirit of discussion and not confrontation.

ya, that is a gift. i wish i could do that. i pray that i can do that. But if i don't then go and do that, what good is my prayer?

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

That being said, I feel we must first define the meaning of repentance. I believe if you look the work up in the Greek we can agree it means a change of direction. What it does not mean IMO is a declaration of being sorry for sin. That is a given. When one changes direction, that should be done for the very fact that you believe the way you once were was wrong and you are turning over a new leaf.

nice. hence, "rebound." Being sorry is great. Saying you're sorry is what we do at each other to indicate rebound, and receive a blessing of forgiveness. 2 minutes, max. Not even that long, right. But if you then come tell me you are sorry again ten minutes later, how does that help? So, there is no penance you can do to get any more forgiveness. i must exhibit a changed mind, a different direction, 180 degrees away from my offense, in order to do that.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I've never said that tongues are not to follow as a sign of the HG.

I have said that seeking the sign is the wrong approach. Preach the gospel, the message of the apostles, and signs will follow.

Amen!!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

As I presented above, concerning repentance and baptism, both were what one did after belief. Faith was what "saved". To say the Samaritans were not saved having been baptized believing, or the house of Cornelius were not saved when they receive the HG before baptism is in MO twisting and adding to the word of God.

To say they were saved before the baptisms of water and spirit is also adding to the word. The word just presents water baptism and spirit baptism with faith. It simply doesn't say in those instances when salvation occurred.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by mfblume

To say they were saved before the baptisms of water and spirit is also adding to the word. The word just presents water baptism and spirit baptism with faith. It simply doesn't say in those instances when salvation occurred.

Actually I believe you are wrong, as we have skirted this issue several times in the past. First let me say I don't believe one must put two passages together from two or more books or letters to build a doctrine. In doing so is IMO one way we add to the word of God.

John 3:5 is a prime example When Nic. ask about entering his mothers womb a second time, he directed his answer to that question. Baptism in never spoken in scripture as a birth ever. To ignore the many passages that say "he that believeth on him shall be saved"

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Gal_3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

[shag]

I have friends that belief in Jesus the Christ, and the message of the cross, but have not made any commitment toward following Christ. They surely are not born again. However, Loren, you are more saying that one must "believe"-defined as "trusting in, clinging to, and relying on, (Amplified-believe-Jn 3:16), "a commitment from the heart, brought about by faith/believing in, correct?