The Anointed Jesus?

[phareztamar]

Just responding to Dr. Yates original post.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

Ok, here goes another: There is a teaching, very popular in certain circles that posits the understanding that while on Earth, Jesus did not function in any capacity as God, but simply as a man anointed by the Holy Ghost. The corollary is that we are now able to function in the same way. I am interested in your thoughts on this issue, being an Apostolic.

This was the original quote. I highlighted the part that concerned about about this "teaching" that Dr. Yates wanted to discuss and I'll quote "Jesus did not function in any capacity as God".

My response to this part of the "teaching" he wanted to discuss:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I think this is a very dangerous teaching, similar to what you find in the Mormon church, and New Age type doctrines among others. It lifts up flesh to a level that is equal with God. It posits that man can become a god, even as Jesus did (my correction here sorry for the confusion... should read I DO NOT believe that Jesus "became a god" HE IS GOD) but this doctrine believes that Jesus became as God because of his mighty works

I have come into contact with various forms of this doctrine, and at its core it is Satanic. For Lucifer himself was the one who was cast out of heaven because he thought he could make himself equal with God. And ever since that time, he has been convincing humans to make that same error. He convinces those who will listen that you can be just as Jesus was, a little god, so to speak. It is a basic New Age doctrine that has been packaged many, many times into different doctrines through history.

According to the writers of the NT, believers are to reject any attempt of any doctrine to lift up and elevate a man to place equal with God/Jesus. Jesus was humanity and divine all wrapped up into one physical body that was transformed after Calvary into a spiritual body. His spirit was poured out on the Day of Pentecost, but he still remains in a spiritual body.

I have recently heard a doctrine that says that Jesus dispersed into his body on the Day of Pentecost, and that now each one of the believers (who believe this) that they in essence have become the body of Jesus Christ. And this group sings songs like "I see Christ in you, You see Christ in me, Praise the Lord", which basically is glorifying the Christ in each of the brethren and believing that Christ does not have a spiritual body anymore, but inhabits believers, who are the true body. This basically turns into worship of each other, because of the "Christ" that has dispersed into that body of the believer. Scary stuff!

The end result of this doctrine is that its followers believe they are above sin and that soon Christ is going to transform them, just as He was transformed after Calvary, and that they are going to be "Joel's Army" marching through the land doing great feats and exploits in the name of Jesus. Their basic belief is that since Christ no longer has a body, and has come to indwell believers, that we can rise up to do greater things than have ever seen before, greater works than any other time in history, and only those who believe this will be a part of this "Joel's Army"...

It is a very dangerous doctrine, because it places greater emphasis on human works, and efforts and lifts humanity up to a divine level.

Jesus said I am the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last. There is none like me. All power in heaven and earth is given unto me.

Any doctrine that seeks to elevate flesh to a divine nature is Satanic and not of God. Jesus will not share His glory with another. No human, and no angelic being.... God will not share His glory, not even with any part of his creation, humans and angelic beings alike.

I John 4:1-2 "Beloved believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God, and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already it is in the world."

Again, any teaching that elevates flesh to the level of a divine nature, and/or denies the humanity/deity of Christ is the spirit of the ANTICHRIST and from which we are to flee.

I am sorry that I did not complete my sentence correctly in the above. Many religions, such as Mormonism, and New Age type doctrines believe that Jesus was not GOD, but simply a god annointed for a special purpose by God, and believe that all men can likewise do the same. When I first read Dr. Yates' statement about this teaching, that is what stuck out to me was this statement "Jesus did not function in any capacity as God, but simply as a man anointed by the Holy Ghost". This kind of doctrine is not far away from lifting man up to a level close or equal to Christ, and THAT doctrine is what I was addressing.

I do believe that we can be anointed with the same spirit that Christ had, in a measure, but Christ had the full measure of the spirit, because HE WAS GOD.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That is actually the opposite of what he said.

He said there are people that believed he did NOT function as God but simply as a man anointed by the Spirit.

The corollary is that we too can operate as men anointed by the Spirit to do the same works.

Joh 14:12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father.

I still think this doctrine or teaching is dangerous, because Jesus was God, and was not just a man anointed by the Spirit. Jesus was God, for if He wasn't then how could HE have been our perfect sinless Saviour?

Originally Posted by larrylyates

Wow! How did you get ALL of THAT from what I asked? While I certainly agree that there is only one God and we ain't Him! And I agree that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega and that all power in heaven and in earth has been given unto Him.

Sorry, a mistype on my part led to this misunderstanding. You and I both AGREE on this point! There is only ONE God, Jesus is His Name.

Originally Posted by larrylyates

However, your last reference is borrowed from Matthew 28, which actually says:

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

The implication is that there was some kind of relationship between His power and the command to go. This is clear from the use of "therefore." He had earlier told them: "12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. (John 14:12-14).

Very few in the Church today believe those verses. Just act like you believe them and see the backlash that comes against you!

I agree with you wholeheartedly here too.

Originally Posted by larrylyates

He promised in Mark 16:17-20: "17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.


The key is in Acts 1:8--"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

This verse is closely related to Matthew 28. The power is intended to equip us to witness for Him in power and the manifestations of signs and wonders. In fact, anything less, is living far below our potential, hence the mess we see around us.

Romans 8:19
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

The very creation is waiting for us to step up to the plate and be who we are meant to be.

Romans 15:19
Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

We have been anointed by the Holy Ghost in order to produce in us the ability to witness of Him with power. Anything less, according to Paul is not fully preaching the Gospel. In fact, the gospel preached in the absence of signs and wonders is not the Gospel of Christ; it is not the Gospel of the Kingdom.

We are on the "same page" with this Bro. I am sorry for the mistype in my post above. Please forgive me. But, we are acquainted with a group of people who whole heartedly espouse the doctrine I described above, being that "Jesus dispersed into his body, and that we now have the same anointing and power in us as Jesus did, and making us equal to Jesus"... that is where I see the terrible danger of believing that Jesus was just a man anointed by God, and not God himself. It is a fallacy that the apostles were dealing with even in their NT writings.

Originally Posted by larrylyates

The problem is two fold. for too many years the Church has been deceived into living beneath her true nature and ceased being a force for God in the world. We didn't understand who we are in Christ. Then, when a few brave souls began to step out in faith and live up to their potential they were immediately slapped down by a religious structure steeped in unbelief.

Unfortunately, that attitude exists even among Pentecostals today! We who should be at the forefront of the miraculous, have sold our birthright for a mess of pottage. We too have made the Word of God of no effect for the sake of our own religious traditions.

I find it sad that some of the greatest resistance I face in ministry is the attack against the message of healing that comes from Apostolic Pentecostals. Just read some of my other threads. It's an appalling state of affairs!

Yes, it is a very sad state of affairs. Persecution has always been greatest within the church, not from without. For it was the "church" of the day who crucified Jesus, and it is the "church" of today who are still crucifying those who would dare to walk and live as Jesus did.

Originally Posted by larrylyates

One thing concerns me. You said, "It posits that man can become a god, even as Jesus did." Perhaps I am misunderstanding you but it seems to imply that you somehow believe that Jesus "became a god." Please tell me I am misreading this or it is a typo!!

I mistyped... so sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I still think this doctrine or teaching is dangerous, because Jesus was God, and was not just a man anointed by the Spirit. Jesus was God, for if He wasn't then how could HE have been our perfect sinless Saviour?

Other than Seekerman I did not see ANYONE say Jesus was just a man...I do believe you have misunderstood the topic

He didn't say "Jesus wasn't God"

He said the teaching is Jesus did not FUNCTION in that capacity. Big difference

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Other than Seekerman I did not see ANYONE say Jesus was just a man...I do believe you have misunderstood the topic

He didn't say "Jesus wasn't God"

He said the teaching is Jesus did not FUNCTION in that capacity. Big difference

I've never said nor suggested that Jesus was "just a man".

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

This was the original quote. I highlighted the part that concerned about about this "teaching" that Dr. Yates wanted to discuss and I'll quote "Jesus did not function in any capacity as God".

My response to this part of the "teaching" he wanted to discuss:


I am sorry that I did not complete my sentence correctly in the above. Many religions, such as Mormonism, and New Age type doctrines believe that Jesus was not GOD, but simply a god annointed for a special purpose by God, and believe that all men can likewise do the same. When I first read Dr. Yates' statement about this teaching, that is what stuck out to me was this statement "Jesus did not function in any capacity as God, but simply as a man anointed by the Holy Ghost". This kind of doctrine is not far away from lifting man up to a level close or equal to Christ, and THAT doctrine is what I was addressing.

I do believe that we can be anointed with the same spirit that Christ had, in a measure, but Christ had the full measure of the spirit, because HE WAS GOD.



I still think this doctrine or teaching is dangerous, because Jesus was God, and was not just a man anointed by the Spirit. Jesus was God, for if He wasn't then how could HE have been our perfect sinless Saviour?



Sorry, a mistype on my part led to this misunderstanding. You and I both AGREE on this point! There is only ONE God, Jesus is His Name.



I agree with you wholeheartedly here too.



We are on the "same page" with this Bro. I am sorry for the mistype in my post above. Please forgive me. But, we are acquainted with a group of people who whole heartedly espouse the doctrine I described above, being that "Jesus dispersed into his body, and that we now have the same anointing and power in us as Jesus did, and making us equal to Jesus"... that is where I see the terrible danger of believing that Jesus was just a man anointed by God, and not God himself. It is a fallacy that the apostles were dealing with even in their NT writings.



Yes, it is a very sad state of affairs. Persecution has always been greatest within the church, not from without. For it was the "church" of the day who crucified Jesus, and it is the "church" of today who are still crucifying those who would dare to walk and live as Jesus did.

I mistyped... so sorry for the misunderstanding.

Gotcha! No problem, my fingers mistype all the time. Thanks for taking time to clear that up.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I've never said nor suggested that Jesus was "just a man".

So you believe Jesus was also God? Also an angel? What else was Jesus if not just a man?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So you believe Jesus was also God? Also an angel? What else was Jesus if not just a man?

I've been very open on who I believe Jesus was. He was a unique, one-of-a-kind, type of angelic being, the bright and morning star.

No, Jesus isn't God, He's the Son of God. The Christ. The Lamb of God.

[phareztamar]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So you believe Jesus was also God? Also an angel? What else was Jesus if not just a man?

GOD IN CHRIST

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Chapter one was about Emmanuel…God with us. Chapter two is about God in Christ. The two are very different. God with us is a nine month biological wonder. A human seed, fusing with a divine seed. Emmanuel, is the 300 trillion copies of that fusion, walking the shores of Galilee. Emmanuel, is the Word made flesh, and walking among us.
But God with us is not the same as God in Christ. God in Christ, does not begin in Bethlehem. Indeed, the term Christ itself suffices. Christ is a term of ministry and office. This robe was not yet donned by our Lord…neither at Bethlehem, nor for his first 30 years. Even beyond common sense, if God in Christ began in Bethlehem, then a very rich and beautiful hermeneutic of scripture is violated.
Consider, that the Mighty God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, wanted his chosen people to build him a tent. Not just any tent, but a very detailed tent. A tent of micro-managed design and specification. In fact when complete, it must match a heavenly tent, showed to Moses in the mount. Why a tent? Heaven is his throne, and the earth his footstool. Why does the Father of eternity, desire that a tent be built? Simply this: that I may dwell among them. That I may tabernacle with them. That I may walk with them…talk with them…and lead them into a promised land. So Israel built this elaborate tent. But for all the smithy’s and their hearths…the weavers and their fabrics…the woodsmen and their axes…the handling of materials and labor that went on…exactly when, did the Mighty God take up residence in his tent? At the beginning? At the dyers vats, or the cutters mill? When it was dried-in? No…he would tarry until its inauguration. It must be complete…down to the last knop and flower.
This storied tent, built by nomadic Israel, grew to regal proportions in the days of King Solomon. A massive temple, where once stood a mobile tent. A structure for which Solomon spared no expense. Cedar and gold, silver and marble, linens and spices. Hundreds of thousands of man hours spent in its erection. But again, when did the Mighty God occupy this beautiful temple? When the cornerstone was laid? When the cedar was overlaid with gold, or the silver sockets cast? When the walls went up? Again, God would tarry until its completion. That grand ceremony; records Solomon’s magnificent prayer, his elaborate sacrifices in a single day, and the arrival of God, in his temple.
And yet a third time, the Spirit testifies: sacrifice and offering thou woulds’t not, but a body hast thou prepared me. And yet a third time, God’s arrival would tarry, until the temple is completed. And as with the temples before, preparation must be made for his arrival. He would tarry until: the way of the lord be prepared; every valley filled, every mountain and hill brought low, the crooked made straight, and the rough ways made smooth. His residency in this temple, must wait for the preparer of the way, to prepare the way: this is he, of whom it is written, behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare the way before thee. And Malachi was bolder still, saying: Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple.
The Mighty God’s only, first begotten son, had been born of a virgin. The Word made flesh…on a microscopic cell level…developed for nine months, and then grew and matured for 30 years. It is a medical mystery never to be solved...the flesh and bone results, of a human seed fusing with a divine seed. How blessed the few, who got to see this miracle. Those who: have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the word of life. But God with us…an unspeakable marvel in its own right…is not to be confused with God in Christ. God in Christ stands alone…a distinct event, with a specific starting point.
Like all fathers, God’s intervention must be stayed during temple construction. His son must be tested and tempted…during the prime years of a young mans life…in all points like as we. He must experience the fears and the joys…the pain and the love…that all men feel in life. And so the Father of eternity, looks on at his only begotten son…nursing at his mothers paps…crying at his circumcision…marveling as a lad, at his Fathers beautiful handiwork, in the gardens and forests of Palestine. A hushed heaven, beholding a Fathers great restraint.
John the Baptist, having finished his ministry of preparation, arrives at the pinnacle of his calling. He meets the word made flesh at the Jordan River. Jesus’ preparation is now complete. The fullness of time has come. The finished temple is perfect in every way: tried and tested, holy and sinless. Actually, his 30 years of preparation, are a closed book to us. We know the zeal of his father’s house was eating him up. We know that, of a long time, he desired to be about his father’s business. Short of this, we really know nothing at all about his first 30 years. A full 90% of our lords life…obscured by the Holy Ghost.
On the banks of the muddy Jordan, Jesus is now ready to don the mantle of Christ. Temple construction is complete, down to the tongs and snuffdishes. The Father is well pleased. Only one thing remains, to fulfill all righteousness. And so, the preparer of the way, baptizes Jesus. As He rises from that watery grave, Jesus is filled with the Holy Ghost. It is at this moment, that bold Malachi’s prophecy comes true: and the lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple. This is the start, of God in Christ. What now walks in Jesus’ sandaled feet…heals with his carpenter hands…weeps with eyes of compassion…is no less than: God in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself. Here is the inauguration, of Moses tent in the wilderness. Here is God’s arrival, at Solomon’s temple feast. Now is God manifest in the flesh. Not at Bethlehem, but 30 years later at Jordan. Now does the fullness of the Godhead dwell in him bodily. The restrained father, is no longer with his son…but in him. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God, for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
To separate God with us from God in Christ by 30 years, does not minimize the miracle, that God has fathered His only begotten son. What part of this marvelous gospel is less marvelous, that God would tarry 30 years, before taking up residence? How does His tarrying…until the temple is complete…alter the miracle of Emmanuel? It does not. How else might He be made in all points like as we, yet save creation with the only sinless blood ever produced? How else might He establish His royal lineage from David, and yet take on the form of a servant? His tarrying had nothing to do with the Word made flesh, and dwelling among us. But this is a different mystery than God in Christ. This is a mystery of divine fertilization. Emmanuel…God with us…had a beginning, nine months before Bethlehem. He endured an ongoing process of growth, development, and maturing. He had a starting point, and 33 years later, a tragic ending. But during that time of the Word made flesh…30 years into his short life…God in Christ occurs. And when the lord suddenly comes to this prepared temple, we embark upon the whole purpose of Bethlehem…reconciliation.
And what of the temple Himself? What of the 30 year old man Jesus?
Here is the most beautiful irony of the gospel story. The crowning trait, of the most famous man in human history, is in fact, His anonymity. The Son of God that nobody knows. This too, is the single trait, that He hopes his followers might achieve. It is the greatest…albeit most difficult… achievement, that any apostolic life can pursue. That is, simply, to die…to lose our life. For anonymity is the very meat of maturity. Such was the testimony of our brother Paul:
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
And in another place:
I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Here is that elusive, pinnacle achievement sought by every apostolic who loves Him. To die daily…to remain crucified with Christ…to lose our life, that we may find it. And where do we think the apostle learned so radical a theology? At the feet of Gamaliel? I think not. After all, the way of death, and the way of all humanity, are polar opposites. The scripture testifies, that Paul learned this way of death, from the example set by his Lord. Jesus showed Paul…Jesus showed all men…this new concept of dying daily. Jesus lived it, long before Paul adopted the practice. For I dare say, that the Master practiced what He preached. And fully two years, before the world knew how He would die, Jesus did preach:
If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
From His inauguration at Jordan, until His cruel death at Calvary, my Lord lived a crucified life. Every day of His short ministry, Jesus willingly crawled up on that cross, dying to Himself. Had He not, we should all be the poorer; hearing only the words of the Son of God, rather than the words of God in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself. This, Paul understood better than most. He saw that the successful reconciliation, of humanity to God, would require the Son of God to hide His own life in His Father.
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
For His first 30 years on earth, Jesus’ life was obscured by the Holy Ghost. Then came Jordan. Here, He willingly died and was buried. Here, He begins a 3 ½ year regimen, of dying on a cross every day. What of Jesus? His life was truly and completely, hidden in God. So hidden, that even today, no man can possibly know who the Son is. And wasn’t that His very testimony?
All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the son, and he to whom the son will reveal him.
This is, in fact, the manifest beauty of the Son of God. For in that He gave His life; He gave it first at Jordan…and then ultimately, at Calvary. No man knoweth who the Son is, including us…simply because no man has ever seen him. We have a record of His birth, a visit to the temple at 12, His brief encounter with John at 30, and His prayers to His Father. We all take our lives with us, as we leave the burial waters of baptism. Then we embark on a gradual, life-long process, of allowing the Holy Ghost to crucify us. But not so with my Lord. In one fell swoop at Jordan…He laid down His life in the burial waters of baptism, for you and for me. When He was buried by John, that was the last the world would ever see of the man Jesus. His 30 years of preparation are complete. The temple is ready. The fullness of time had come. From this day forward:
The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
In the form of Noah’s dove, the Lord, whom ye seek, has suddenly come to his temple. After 2,000 years of wander, the dove has at last found a suitable place, to rest the soles of its feet. This is God in Christ. No man knoweth who the son is, but the Father.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I've been very open on who I believe Jesus was. He was a unique, one-of-a-kind, type of angelic being, the bright and morning star.

No, Jesus isn't God, He's the Son of God. The Christ. The Lamb of God.

Was he both man and angel? Was he human at all?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

Gotcha! No problem, my fingers mistype all the time. Thanks for taking time to clear that up.