Any Message Believers Here?

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by meetingplace

Have any of you personally attended a Message/Branham church?

I attended Branham Tabernacle and Faith Assembly (Raymond Jackson) when I lived in Jeffersonville. However, to answer the original question...no, I am not a "Message believer" (i.e., a follower of William Branham.)

[gary boyd]

i believe wmb was used of God, but to call him a or the prophet of the last age is a stretch. he stood for the word i like that he spoke out against what the bible does. woman preaching and handling the word. he never watered down the word of God. i think he made a false prophesy when he predicted the end of times and calif falling into the ocean by 1977. i think alot of people dont like him for their own selfish reasons. i think he was a great man of God who has past, and some people need to move on instead of stoping and staying in all things brahnam. to me they are cultists.

[samuelofisrael]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

His argument was based on this scripture:
John 8
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

So Branham's arguement was "why would the Jews say they were not born of fornication when Jesus said the devil was their Father?"

What do you guys think? Why did the Jews answer that way?

John 8 proves Branham's version of "serpent seed" as fallacious.

The fact that the serpent [satan] has a seed but not a biological seed is the issue. Hence the two words employed in the Greek Text.

Those who opposed Yeshua were of the their father [pater] the devil. Yet, they claimed to be the offspring [sperma] of Abraham. That is, by lineage and by genetic breeding. Yeshua agreed with them that Abraham was indeed their father [of his sperma] but they were [nevertheless] "of" the devil.

One of Branham's errors [among many] was that the conjunction "of" indicated biological descent. Not so. Clearly they were of the devil but not of biological descent.

One can be of the "sperma" [literal descent of Abraham] and be "of" their "pater" the devil.

Rev 22 identifies the Old Serpent as the devil, satan.

The many folk tales, Big Foot, "missing link," Kaballah, etc is the stuff of fiction generated by men of UNregenerate minds.

One approaches the fork in the road ... believe the Word and Jesus' exposition or a failed group of folks who are ignorant, fearful, gullible and perhaps, forever deceived.

Even so, come soon Lord Jesus.

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by samuelofisrael

John 8 proves Branham's version of "serpent seed" as fallacious.

The fact that the serpent [satan] has a seed but not a biological seed is the issue. Hence the two words employed in the Greek Text.

Those who opposed Yeshua were of the their father [pater] the devil. Yet, they claimed to be the offspring [sperma] of Abraham. That is, by lineage and by genetic breeding. Yeshua agreed with them that Abraham was indeed their father [of his sperma] but they were [nevertheless] "of" the devil.

One of Branham's errors [among many] was that the conjunction "of" indicated biological descent. Not so. Clearly they were of the devil but not of biological descent.

One can be of the "sperma" [literal descent of Abraham] and be "of" their "pater" the devil.

Rev 22 identifies the Old Serpent as the devil, satan.

The many folk tales, Big Foot, "missing link," Kaballah, etc is the stuff of fiction generated by men of UNregenerate minds.

One approaches the fork in the road ... believe the Word and Jesus' exposition or a failed group of folks who are ignorant, fearful, gullible and perhaps, forever deceived.

Even so, come soon Lord Jesus.

So here's a question:
Gen 3:15 (NIV)
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”


So we see four entities in this verse:
1. You (referring to the serpent)
2. The woman (referring to Eve)
3. The offspring of the serpent (what is that??)
4. The offspring of the woman (referring to Christ)

So what do you think the "offspring of the serpent" is?

[samuelofisrael]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

So here's a question:
Gen 3:15 (NIV)
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”


So we see four entities in this verse:
1. You (referring to the serpent)
2. The woman (referring to Eve)
3. The offspring of the serpent (what is that??)
4. The offspring of the woman (referring to Christ)

So what do you think the "offspring of the serpent" is?

Jesus answered that question for you in John 8.

Two Greek Words are used in this passage and in fact, both the seed of the serpent AND the seed of Abraham are of the same descent but of a different "seed."

Follow if you will.

The Seed of the Woman is surely Jesus [Yeshua] the [Christ] Messiah.
The seed of the serpent is the non elect seed [sperma] of Abraham by natural descent but of their "father" [not sperma but pater, the devil].

The unbelieving Israelites were of the "sperma" of Abraham but were of their "father" the devil. These are the Words of the King and not my exposition.

Jn 8:37-44

I know that ye are Abraham's seed [Gk. "sperma"]; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father [pater] the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


The opposers of Yeshua were of the natural lineage of Abraham [sperma/seed] as Jesus fully admits but their "father" was the devil. Here we are not dealing ONLY with a biological descent but something far more important, that of spiritual faith. Those who were of Abrahams 'natural' line had no part nor lot with Jesus but took their descent [spiriturally] from satan. This Jesus sought to not only agree with them that they were of the "sperma" of Abraham but that their father was the devil.

We transcend mere biological descent into the mystery of election wherein one is of the "sperma" of Abraham AND a son of God and the other is also of the "sperma" of Abraham and yet, of their father the devil.

May I interject a passage from Apostolic Doctrine here:



Ro 9:11-17

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.



Even so, come Lord Jesus

[imreedemed]

I used to repeatedly listen to Branham's sermons alot on WMB website. He was very convincing and only quoted the scriptures, and the spiritual manifestations would not have been false. However, a couple of things set me back.
1. A mormon called him a true prophet of God, and he confirmed it.
2. The serpent seed doctrine. Changing one part the scripture opens up the Word to our interpretation.
3. His son-in-law (Rebecca's husband i believe) gave a testimony of him on youtube. Someone had died, and during the mourning period, Branham enters the room and sees the dead guy seated in the same room.
4. Failed 1977 prediction.
5. I quickly started getting legalistic and specially to women!
6. Internet

It was getting too much for me to bear, so decided to just believe on the simplicity of the gospel: Death of Christ on the cross to fulfill the law, the shedding of His blood, and His resurrection. We are saved by Grace through faith in the Risen Christ! It's that simple. Plus i'd rather let the Holy Spirit speak and direct me accordingly as i read and live the Word.

[MondayMorning]

I was in the message most of my life. About 15 years ago, God used personal events to make me go back to square one, my Bible. It freed me from the message, and gave me my joy back!

[MondayMorning]

Redeemed, those are several good reasons to stay away from William Branham!

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by meetingplace

Could you give an example of way off track?

I would like to know the part about how Branham started right!

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

His argument was based on this scripture:
John 8
41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

So Branham's arguement was "why would the Jews say they were not born of fornication when Jesus said the devil was their Father?"

What do you guys think? Why did the Jews answer that way?

The Jews were calling Jesus a "bastard". After all, they reasoned, was he not conceived out of wedlock?