"Pompous Pentecostals" by MB

[aegsm76]

You really don't see it.

Let me try to repeat what I understand, again.

Your church only has rules that are found in the Bible or are culturally relevant.

Any church that derives it's rules from anywhere else is legalistic.

Correct?

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Did you really read the blog post?
MB's point was that it was ridiculous for people to dis-fellowship him over those points.
You are saying the same thing he did.

Well, that's actually why I'm having a hard time dialoguing with you. That wasn't what I posed for discussion. Go back and read my post.

It has more to do with the irony of ministers saying "don't disfellowship over silly petty non-biblical things" while they disfellowship people over "silly, petty, non-biblical things." Sounds hypocritical and disingenuous.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

You really don't see it.

Let me try to repeat what I understand, again.

Your church only has rules that are found in the Bible or are culturally relevant.

Any church that derives it's rules from anywhere else is legalistic.

Correct?

The word "rules" never comes up in discussion, preaching or teaching at our church. It's not a commune, a daycare, or a grade school. Principled teaching is what you'll hear. If there are things that we say "avoid, flee, don't do this" it's from scripture.

This form of justification for legalism is a little creative. "Since we believe all churches have some form of rules, therefore, our non-biblical, excessive and over-bearing rules are not legalistic." That followed up with a sermon about how the price of heaven is worth it no matter the cost

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Socialite

The word "rules" never comes up in discussion, preaching or teaching at our church. It's not a commune, a daycare, or a grade school. Principled teaching is what you'll hear. If there are things that we say "avoid, flee, don't do this" it's from scripture.

This form of justification for legalism is a little creative. "Since we believe all churches have some form of rules, therefore, our non-biblical, excessive and over-bearing rules are not legalistic." That followed up with a sermon about how the price of heaven is worth it no matter the cost

You know it never comes up at our church either.
So, is my summation correct?

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

You know it never comes up at our church either.
So, is my summation correct?

Yes, subjecting people, whether you talk about it behind closed doors or use group conformity, to rules you make-up at the cost of providing them a safe place to worship and grow in faith is legalism to be sure.

It also assumes and usurps the role of the Holy Spirit.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Yes, subjecting people, whether you talk about it behind closed doors or use group conformity, to rules you make-up at the cost of providing them a safe place to worship and grow in faith is legalism to be sure.

It also assumes and usurps the role of the Holy Spirit.

And that's where we will never agree.
I believe that there can be different rules/standards/things to avoid/things to flee, for different churches.
This does not mean that either church is better or more holy than another.
This does mean that people and areas are different.
Different areas fight against different things, spiritually.
Thus the necessity for different rules/mores or what ever you want to call it.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

And that's where we will never agree.
I believe that there can be different rules/standards/things to avoid/things to flee, for different churches.
This does not mean that either church is better or more holy than another.
This does mean that people and areas are different.
Different areas fight against different things, spiritually.
Thus the necessity for different rules/mores or what ever you want to call it.

Are you sure? I grew up in this... I was in ministry in this. I know the conversations behind closed doors when "that one church" was going to show up to the youth event. We had to "protect our kids."

Do rules save us, aegsm? If one conforms to a rule, does that really save them? At what point are we going to quit controlling people and putting them in uniform boxes of our own convictions and submit them to the Lordship of Jesus instead?

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Are you sure? I grew up in this... I was in ministry in this. I know the conversations behind closed doors when "that one church" was going to show up to the youth event. We had to "protect our kids."

Do rules save us, aegsm? If one conforms to a rule, does that really save them? At what point are we going to quit controlling people and putting them in uniform boxes of our own convictions and submit them to the Lordship of Jesus instead?

There is nothing salvational about rules.
There is a quote that says:
"Rules without relationship leads to rebellion".
Relationship with God is the main focal point for me.
Do we have rules.
Yes.
Are they the main focus.
No.

[aegsm76]

I chose to raise my family up in a certain way.
My brothers chose differently.
I raised my children in what you would call a UC environment.
My children were hurt by those people who took great pride in their own righteousness.
However, they saw enough "real" people, that they learned that relationship with God is of the utmost importance.
They are workers for His Kingdom.
My brothers chose the freedom that you so heartily endorse.
A freedom of churches that pulled out of the mothership over "rules".
Not one of their 5 children are saved.
Not one of my 4 great nieces/nephews are saved.
They are good people, but they see no difference between Apostolic Pentecost and any other "feel-good" church.
You go your way and raise your family.
I'll continue to raise mine as I believe the Lord wants me to.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

There is nothing salvational about rules.
There is a quote that says:
"Rules without relationship leads to rebellion".
Relationship with God is the main focal point for me.
Do we have rules.
Yes.
Are they the main focus.
No.

Yeah, we said that one all the time. But it's certainly how everyone knew us. It's what made us insecure with others, and it's how we compared ourselves to others.