Eschatological Judgment and Justification by deeds

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

actually people are taken out also.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. ...

Is God "surprised" when He must "blot out a name?"

God: "Wow! That 'notofworks' character really surprised me. I was so sure that he was going to make it that I wrote His name in the Book of Life way back when I was laying the foundation stones and creating the cosmos. I really thought that guy would make it! ???"

The "Books" are metaphors intended to convey a word picture of God's sovereign intentions. We usurp His authority at times when we over anthropomorphize His sovereign Deity.

[Michael The Disciple]

There are two phases to salvation. Initial and final. Scripture says we will be judged by our works. We are not FINALLY saved until the resurrection. At present we are saved by faith. Then it will be total reality.

The Holy Spirit speaks expressly that only those who are overcomers will be saved. Not an overcomer? Name blotted out of the book of life by Yeshua Messiah. Rev. 3:5

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

There are two phases to salvation. Initial and final. Scripture says we will be judged by our works. We are not FINALLY saved until the resurrection. At present we are saved by faith. Then it will be total reality.

The Holy Spirit speaks expressly that only those who are overcomers will be saved. Not an overcomer? Name blotted out of the book of life by Yeshua Messiah. Rev. 3:5

So what defines an "Overcomer"?

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by notofworks

So what defines an "Overcomer"?

It's quiet in here. If you boys wanna say that our eternities are determined, I need some scripture to clearly define what those works are. I've asked several times and I'm not getting anything. I need works of salvation and works of damnation...scripturally.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by notofworks

It's quiet in here. If you boys wanna say that our eternities are determined, I need some scripture to clearly define what those works are. I've asked several times and I'm not getting anything. I need works of salvation and works of damnation...scripturally.

There are many ways it is spelled out in scripture. Here is one of the ways.

5:19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 5:23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 5:24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. Gal. 5:19-24

Scripture is by no means silent on this.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

There are two phases to salvation. Initial and final. Scripture says we will be judged by our works. We are not FINALLY saved until the resurrection. At present we are saved by faith. Then it will be total reality.

The Holy Spirit speaks expressly that only those who are overcomers will be saved. Not an overcomer? Name blotted out of the book of life by Yeshua Messiah. Rev. 3:5

Was (or is) Messiah surprised when He has to "blot someone out of the Book?"

I don't think your literalism here takes many of God's attributes into account. Attributes like His foreknowledge and omniscience. He already has a "Book" with the names of those for whom He has prepared a kingdom and a paradise.

God doesn't need blotter or "Liquid Paper." He doesn't make mistakes in His Book keeping or records.

Just how many times do you think God has actually had to say, "Oops! I got that one wrong!" and then have to erase something that He had already written?

[pelathais]

The LARGE size for God!

Because He makes so many mistakes whenever He enters someone's name into the Book of Life!

... or is there simply some other way that we ought to be looking at these things?

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

There are many ways it is spelled out in scripture. Here is one of the ways.

5:19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, 5:23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 5:24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. Gal. 5:19-24

Scripture is by no means silent on this.

Well, this is a great list of the works of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit, but by no means is it a clear definition of the actual works that supposedly save us or condemn us. But would you say that ANY work of the flesh, unrepented of before death say, an outburst of wrath...even if it's 30 seconds before death, would condemn us to hell? Or do you believe as Legal does, that it depends on the heart?

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The LARGE size for God!

Because He makes so many mistakes whenever He enters someone's name into the Book of Life!

... or is there simply some other way that we ought to be looking at these things?

WOW!!!! That's AMAZING!! Love it!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by notofworks

WOW!!!! That's AMAZING!! Love it!

Yeah... but it looks like another "Thread Killer."

Sorry.

Mike? TL?