I guess I don't see the preacher bashing here that many seem to see. Doctrines may be bashed. Bad decisions may be discussed. But I don't feel an animosity towards preachers on this site.
GS,
I can wholeheartedly agree that any time spent in derision, gossip, or any kind of judgemental ridicule, is fully sourced from within what should be a former thing among the saints; carnal mindedness.
I also happen to be one of the folks here who believe that the label "man of God" is a former thing. It no longer has relevance. The role has been superceded because a veil (flesh) has been rent, the middle wall of partition between us being broken down; all have access onto the holy mountain.
So GS, do you teach that it is still appropriate to create differentiation among the saints by using the phrase "man of God"?
I can not. To do so would be to declare that children "of God" are something other than "of God". It would give occassion for incorrect thinking that there is some kind of preeminence among members of the body that God has anointed.
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Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
GS,
I can wholeheartedly agree that any time spent in derision, gossip, or any kind of judgmental ridicule, is fully sourced from within what should be a former thing among the saints; carnal mindedness.
I also happen to be one of the folks here who believe that the label "man of God" is a former thing. It no longer has relevance. The role has been superseded because a veil (flesh) has been rent, the middle wall of partition between us being broken down; all have access onto the holy mountain.
So GS, do you teach that it is still appropriate to create differentiation among the saints by using the phrase "man of God"?
I can not. To do so would be to declare that children "of God" are something other than "of God". It would give occasion for incorrect thinking that there is some kind of preeminence among members of the body that God has anointed.
In giving honor to whom honor is due does not make them different than anyone else...we are ONE body...the foot is just as important as the eye...and those little joints that you do not see are SO important...
I do have firsthand knowledge of some that think they are on another level...lol...The greatest is only a servant...go look in the dictionary to see what a servant is...
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In giving honor to whom honor is due does not make them different than anyone else...we are ONE body...the foot is just as important as the eye...and those little joints that you do not see are SO important...
I do have firsthand knowledge of some that think they are on another level...lol...The greatest is only a servant...go look in the dictionary to see what a servant is...
Are bunions important, too?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I am thankful for God called Apostles,Prophets,Teachers,Evangelists and Elders because God calls men into these offices to help establish and nurture the saints into the faith.
Sure there are those who abuse the authority of their callings,but men and women whom God has raised up are a blessing,and most definitely are needed in the body of Christ.
Christ is the head of The church,but God ordained ministry helps equip the saints to fulfill the ministry of the saints.
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People who are always looking for fault,can find it easily all they have to do,is look into their mirror.
There they can find plenty of fault.
It seems that very few people on this forum has anything good to say about those who are in ministry. The majority of the opinion comes across as "who do they think they are," "Their controlling," "Dictators!"
Anyway, my wife received this email from a ministry which I will not post, but I thought it was good:
"I can't tell you how many born-again, Holy Ghost-filled Christians pick their pastor apart on Saturday night and then expect him to pray the prayer of faith for them on Sunday morning! They'll constantly make critical comments about the evangelists and preachers that God has sent to minister to them and then wonder why the rain of the Spirit has all but dried up in their churches.
Most of those folks would never dream of criticizing the ministry of Jesus. Yet, according to the Word of God, that's precisely what they're doing. Your see, Jesus said, 'He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth Me.'
I know ministers fail sometimes. I know they make mistakes. Jesus knew they would too. But, even so, He said, 'If you receive them, you receive Me.'
If you think some preacher's doctrine is wrong, then pray for him. Stop sitting under his ministry if necessary. But the Scripture says, 'Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.' (Rom 14:4 - NIV)
The ministers of the gospel are not your servants, they're God's servants. Whether they're right or whether they're wrong, love them and respect them if for no other reaason than to honor the One who sent them.
Learn to receive the minister of God that Jesus sends to you with the same respect and the same honor that you would give Jesus Himself. You'll open the door for great spiritual power to be released. You'll clear the way for God to meet your needs. The anointing of God will be released through the man of God to you.
Refuse to let criticism hold back the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Then get ready to be blessed because, I guarantee, He won't hold out on you."
As I read this, I confess, I get fired up. Not because I dislike preachers or Pastors or because I am a "basher".
The part that bothers me is how preachers / pastors , are set up as being something better, smarter, more spiritual or more worthy of honor or respect than everyone else.
The truth is people are flawed. Though we as Christians strive to love God and our neighbor, we often fail. Whether this failure takes the form of a person criticizing the preacher they just heard, or the form of the preacher using his sermon to verbally abuse another. I don't think that God is happy with either.
It seems that very few people on this forum has anything good to say about those who are in ministry. The majority of the opinion comes across as "who do they think they are," "Their controlling," "Dictators!"
I've been a member of this forum for almost a year and I always find these sorts of threads amusing. It's VERY RARE when I read these threads (and I admit I certainly don't read EVERY thread) that ANY preacher has been bashed. There have been general statements of abuse that have been made. There have been discussions about specific doctrines that are being preached (on a varying scale of wackiness). There have been discussions about standards and leadership in general. But, with the exception of the people associated with the Holy Magic Hair doctrine, I don't know of any pastors/preachers being called out and bashed in the public square.
Quote:
Anyway, my wife received this email from a ministry which I will not post, but I thought it was good:
"I can't tell you how many born-again, Holy Ghost-filled Christians pick their pastor apart on Saturday night and then expect him to pray the prayer of faith for them on Sunday morning! They'll constantly make critical comments about the evangelists and preachers that God has sent to minister to them and then wonder why the rain of the Spirit has all but dried up in their churches.
This statements makes the often incorrect assumption that all ministers are called to their position. Most (I hope) enter the ministry because they have a heart to serve God and the church. But the large minority cannot be overlooked -- those who enter the ministry in order to either (1) make a name for themselves (they seek the pre-eminence), or (2) carry on the "family business."
Quote:
Most of those folks would never dream of criticizing the ministry of Jesus. Yet, according to the Word of God, that's precisely what they're doing. Your see, Jesus said, 'He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth Me.'
Quote:
I know ministers fail sometimes. I know they make mistakes. Jesus knew they would too. But, even so, He said, 'If you receive them, you receive Me.'
Good point. As MOW so eloquently stated, people need to understand that leaders are human also. But... if any man/woman intends to be a leader, it's incumbent upon them to develop some thick skin. It's an incorrect application of the principles of biblical authority to insinuate that leaders are without accountability, except to Jesus. Leaders ARE accountable to the people they lead, and they should be willing to reasonably hear and accept criticism.
Quote:
If you think some preacher's doctrine is wrong, then pray for him. Stop sitting under his ministry if necessary. But the Scripture says, 'Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.' (Rom 14:4 - NIV)
Quote:
The ministers of the gospel are not your servants, they're God's servants. Whether they're right or whether they're wrong, love them and respect them if for no other reaason than to honor the One who sent them.
This could not be more false and contrary to sound doctrine and principles of accountability.
First, the ministry is a gift TO THE CHURCH! Even the word, minister, notes a servant. These servants are given to the church, and are accountable to the church.
Second, the notion that we are to obey/honor/respect the ministry even when they are in error is horribly wrong and dangerous. Paul instructed us to not even bid them godspeed.
Quote:
Learn to receive the minister of God that Jesus sends to you with the same respect and the same honor that you would give Jesus Himself. You'll open the door for great spiritual power to be released. You'll clear the way for God to meet your needs. The anointing of God will be released through the man of God to you.
Quote:
Refuse to let criticism hold back the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Then get ready to be blessed because, I guarantee, He won't hold out on you."
Again, I think the underlying premise of this email your wife received is that the saints (lower class) need to just shut up and take whatever gets thrown at them by the "man of God" (ruling class). And if they don't, they are hindering or quenching the flow of God's anointing.
As has already been noted, the whole "man of God" notion has been put away by the cross of Jesus. The veil was torn, and there is no longer a middle man required to enter vicariously for us into the Holy of Holies. The attitude that "we need to hear the man of God bring to us what God has given him for us" is outdated, and needs to be held up to the light of scripture, even when it conflicts with our tradition. I need a pastor who is a true shepherd, lovingly leading. The shepherd doesn't actually feed the sheep, but rather leads the flock to a place where they can FEED THEMSELVES. That's the calling of the pastor, and is intended to compliment the other ministerial gifts/callings that are provided for the perfection of the saints.
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Instead of studying to make sure what we believe is supported by Scripture, we MUST study the Scripture to see what IT TEACHES... then BELIEVE THAT!
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2.15 KJV
Not sure I get it, but 
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