Genesis,creation and formation

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Prax,That's what I been telling you.In the first chapter God made some things and he created some things and man is one thing he created in the first chapter.Then other scripture says he also made and formed man.So man was created in the first chapter and then made and formed in the second chapter.He took the man Adam he created in the first chapter and formed and made him different.What he did is he breathed in man the first man Adam the breath (spirit) of life.This is when Adam man became spiritual person,the son of God.There was also sons of men God created at the same time he created Adam and he didn't breath the breath (Spirit) of life in them,they were not Adam.Not all men he created was Adam only the one he breathed the breath (Spirit)of life into.The breath (Spirit) of life gave the one man Adam a Spirit body.


Now here we see what God created in the first chapter.
Gen.1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[21] And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Hear we see what he made in the first chapter.Gen.1
[7] And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
[16] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
[25] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

This is what God formed or and made in the second chapter.
Gen.2
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
[8] And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
[19] And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

You said God took the man (adam) he created in the first chapter and formed him by breathing into him to make him a living soul.

The problem is the bible says God formed him FROM THE GROUND...AND THEN breathed LIFE into him. If Adam already was created was he lifeless? Did he have a body made from the ground yet?

Second, as I pointed out before. Man was both Created AND Made in the first chapter!

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth.

Third, Chapter 5 does not say Adam was created, made and formed. It says He was created and made...God MADE Adam how? By forming him from the dust of the ground. He created Adam how? By breathing life into man and creating a living soul...

Also, if chapter 2 is not the 6th day in detail....why does it not only show God making man but also shows God creating animals?

Gen 2:18 And Jehovah God said, It is not good that the man should be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground Jehovah God formed every animal of the field and every fowl of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.

Also....why is Eve called a Woman? The term Woman does not refer to a separate creation of a female human but in truth the term means she was formed or taken FROM the man....

Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called Woman because she was taken out of man.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by PaPaDon

May I ask that you provide a sound scriptural-based explanation wherein God created more than Adam & Eve (the first male and female) in His initial act of creating mankind? I implore you to correct me if my understanding of these things are in error, but the way I have always believed that you and I, as well as ALL mankind, INHERITED the penalty of death, was through the "seed" which lie resident within the physical body of Adam, for it was upon this component of man that the penalty of death was imposed of God for Adam's willful act of disobedience to His commandment concerning the forbidden fruit.

If it be true, as your statements appear to suggest/imply, that in His creation of mankind God also created others of various races, then we MUST find the manner through which the descendants of such that the penalty of death was inherited.

Your reasoning is simply not scriptural based, and therefore MUST be refuted forthwith!

Hi Don,I see the garden of God as the dwelling place of God's sons.I see Adam as a preacher that God breathed into him the breath(Spirit)of life.Adam ate the tree of life that is the word of God that gave him life.Adam preached the word of God that gave others life.He preached to all the other nations.Nations are different races.

At this time Adam had only had two children and one had killed the other and only one was left.Where did these other people come from ? Other races that God had created.The sons of man.

There was other people on the earth that Cain didn't know because ,Gen.4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth
Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD
set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Also note, All great nations at the time of the garden of Eden, also note, the trees in the garden were not natural trees, because they envied.

Who were these trees in the Garden ? Ezekiel031:001 And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 031:002Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness? 031:003Behold, the Assyrian (SATAN THE SERPENT)was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs. 031:004The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent her little rivers unto all the trees (ANGELS)of the field. 031:005Therefore his (SATAN<THE SERPENT)height was exalted above all the trees (ANGELS)of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth. 031:006All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations (OTHER RACES). 031:007Thus was he (SATAN)fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters. 031:008The cedars (OTHER ANGELS)in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him (SATAN)in his beauty. 031:009I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him. 031:010Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou (SATAN)hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height; 031:011I have therefore delivered him (SATAN)into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out (OF THE GARDEN<HEAVEN)for his wickedness. 031:012And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him. 031:013Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches: 031:014To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth(HELL), in the midst of the children of men,(THE UNSAVED) with them that go down to the pit. 031:015Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day when he (SATAN FELL FROM HEAVEN<THE GARDEN)went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him. 031:016I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth. 031:017They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen. 031:018To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD.

Death came on all man kind because Adam fell from the garden and they no longer had a Spirit body preacher.But Jesus saved us from death and gives us life again.We eat the tree of life,the word of God Jesus.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The word man does not mean Adam though, you have that backwards. The hebrew word for man used in Genesis 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and even 5 is the hebrew word Adam. You keep saying the word man also means Adam....no the word Adam, the Hebrew word Adam is translated by english translators into the english word man in Genesis.

Forget Strongs too BTW...I posted the TWOT which is far far superior than a simple Strongs dictionary. Hebrew Scholars would never rely on the Strongs

OK,thank you for your time.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You said God took the man (adam) he created in the first chapter and formed him by breathing into him to make him a living soul.

The problem is the bible says God formed him FROM THE GROUND...AND THEN breathed LIFE into him. If Adam already was created was he lifeless? Did he have a body made from the ground yet?

Second, as I pointed out before. Man was both Created AND Made in the first chapter!

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth.

Third, Chapter 5 does not say Adam was created, made and formed. It says He was created and made...God MADE Adam how? By forming him from the dust of the ground. He created Adam how? By breathing life into man and creating a living soul...

Also, if chapter 2 is not the 6th day in detail....why does it not only show God making man but also shows God creating animals?

Gen 2:18 And Jehovah God said, It is not good that the man should be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground Jehovah God formed every animal of the field and every fowl of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.

Also....why is Eve called a Woman? The term Woman does not refer to a separate creation of a female human but in truth the term means she was formed or taken FROM the man....

Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called Woman because she was taken out of man.

Prax,Yes God created and made man in the first chapter but as I also pointed out read the Strongs,formed has different meaning then made.Made has a whole lot more meaning then formed.Also when God said he formed Adam out of the dust of the ground,that is not natural ground as we know it.Just like the trees in the garden are not natural as we know them.Ground is creation.God formed Adam out of the creation he created in the first chapter.The same as the trees in the garden was angels and it says the trees grew out of the ground.The angels didn't grow out of ground as we know it.The angels grew out of the creation God created in chapter one.

PRAX SAID<The problem is the bible says God formed him FROM THE GROUND...AND THEN breathed LIFE into him. If Adam already was created was he lifeless? Did he have a body made from the ground yet?

JOELEL SAID>Look when God created man (Adam),God gave him natural fleshly life,then when he formed him and breathed into him the breath (Spirit) he became a Spirit man.Then when Adam ate the tree of knowledge of good and evil he lost his Spirit body and went back to the natural fleshly body. Go back and read the posts I posted to other people.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Joelel

[B]Seth was a son of Adam, what makes you think Seth was a son of God and Adam was not.

I never said Adam was not a Son of God.

Originally Posted by mfblume

I never said Adam was not a Son of God.

Then I'll say it: Adam was not a Son of God. He was, according to at least one of the genealogies of Jesus in the gospels, the son of God. Only Jesus is the Son of God.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Chan

Then I'll say it: Adam was not a Son of God. He was, according to at least one of the genealogies of Jesus in the gospels, the son of God. Only Jesus is the Son of God.

What about us, then?

We cannot forget that Christ is the Last man Adam. His humanity now stands in the position Adam should have. And that is still the case right now.

Sons of God affect people. Adam's sin affected us all and so did Christ's obedience.

Originally Posted by mfblume

What about us, then?

We cannot forget that Christ is the Last man Adam. His humanity now stands in the position Adam should have. And that is still the case right now.

Sons of God affect people. Adam's sin affected us all and so did Christ's obedience.

We are sons of God by adoption but we are not Sons of God.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Prax,Yes God created and made man in the first chapter but as I also pointed out read the Strongs,formed has different meaning then made.Made has a whole lot more meaning then formed.

Joel, let me use an illustration. Supposing I take some clay...I use my hands to form the clay into a pot.....I just MADE a pot by FORMING it with my hands...get it? Adam was made, the bible says Adam was made...made and created...Genesis 2 shows us HOW he was made and HOW he was created...made by being formed of the dust of the earth and created by becoming a living being when God breathed life into that formed thing.

Also when God said he formed Adam out of the dust of the ground,that is not natural ground as we know it.Just like the trees in the garden are not natural as we know them.

Not one shred of bible says it was not natural ground...nor does it say the trees were not natural. It only says TWO trees were different...the tree of life and the tree of knowledge. Did you read what I posted from the TWOT on the words Adam? It comes from the word Adama...which is the word we use for ground in the hebrew

Ground is creation.God formed Adam out of the creation he created in the first chapter.

The ground God created in Chapter one was un natural?

The same as the trees in the garden was angels and it says the trees grew out of the ground.The angels didn't grow out of ground as we know it.The angels grew out of the creation God created in chapter one.

God created angels. God created the earth and caused the earth to grow vegitation. We see God did that on the sixth day and we see in chapter 2 God doing it....Chapter 2 is clearly the 6th day elaborated on

PRAX SAID<The problem is the bible says God formed him FROM THE GROUND...AND THEN breathed LIFE into him. If Adam already was created was he lifeless? Did he have a body made from the ground yet?

JOELEL SAID>Look when God created man (Adam),God gave him natural fleshly life,then when he formed him and breathed into him the breath (Spirit) he became a Spirit man.Then when Adam ate the tree of knowledge of good and evil he lost his Spirit body and went back to the natural fleshly body. Go back and read the posts I posted to other people.

No...it says when God formed MAN from the ground he THEN breathed life into him and then and only then did man become a living being or soul. He was made from dirt

Look Joel...why does God call them Adam (man) in chapter 1? You know why? Because in Chapter 2 God made Adam from the Adama! Adama is the hebrew word for ground. Adam is the hebrew word for man used in the first two chapters and it comes from the hebrew word for Ground....Man in chapter one was made from the GROUND just as MAN in chapter 2 is made from the Ground. There is not one verse that shows the ground was different

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Chan

We are sons of God by adoption but we are not Sons of God.

We are sons of God. We've been born again of the Spirit. An actual new birth. We've been begotten by the incorruptible seed of the Word, inconjunction with adpotion. It is actually both.