Emergent Leader says "Gay is Biblical Lifestyle"

[jimmyrrs]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I agree. No one knows with any real certaintly what his thorn in the flesh was.

Even the best scholars have disagreed for centuries as to the nature of his thorn.

We really cant assume either way.



I've heard that, but I dont think the bible evidence for that is definitive at all.

I'm getting ready for church but I think the bible speaks of the large (big) letters he wrote, meaning the size of the alphabate not length of letters. I'll try and find scripture and get back.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by jimmyrrs

I'm getting ready for church but I think the bible speaks of the large (big) letters he wrote, meaning the size of the alphabate not length of letters. I'll try and find scripture and get back.

Yes, I'm familiar with that passage of scripture. (Gal 6:11)
He wrote with large letters, indicating he may have had vision problems.

But there's nothing anywhere that says that that was his "thorn in the flesh".

[tv1a]

No one said straight people were not promiscuous. We were discussing the definition of monogamy in the homosexual community.
My view of addictions is scriptural. God does not give partial freedom from addictions. Whom the Son has set free is free indeed. The struggle occurs when the flesh doesn't line up with the Spirit. You cannot support that God wants people to struggle and not be free. I know people who have been delivered from homosexuality. I know others who struggle. The difference between deliverance and the struggling is when the man is aligned with the Spirit to receive deliverance.

When Jesus delivered people from demonic control, it wasn't a partial deliverance. Cite a biblical example where Jesus performed a partial miracle. Paul's thorn in the flesh is at best unprovable speculation.

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

I completely disagree with all of what you've said here. Straight people are promiscuous too. Your view of recovering addicts is naive, salvation is an ongoing process. Sometimes people are miraculously freed from their vices, most times they are not and must learn to take up their cross daily, ala the Apostle Paul and his 'thorn in the flesh'.

[tv1a]

There is no a single scripture which suggests a chirstian has to struggle with addictions. Addictions are flesh problems. Every man is tempted when he is drawn away from his own lust. Temptation occurs because there is a fleshly craving to participate in sin.

If Jesus came to set the captive free, than every addict wanting addiction can be delivered.

I lost track of how many people I know who no longer struggle with addictions because the flesh is under subjection to the Spirit.

Originally Posted by ForeverBlessed

you are correct. I do believe that some people are totally delivered from lifestyles at conversion....but others deal with the weakness and keep it submitted to God in honor of his word.

To those who might think that everyone is delivered from drugs or alcohol possibly has not dealt with addictions.... according to what my ex husband recently shared with me.... although he served God...his walk was a daily overcoming of temptation of his flesh, just as anyone else struggles with temptation to porn, alchohol and other addictions. He gave in at points of spiritual weakness and eventually never recovered and allowed drugs to destroy his life.

I do believe things can get easier with time of living an overcoming life... the addictive nature is dealt with... but total deliverance does not come for everyone. I personally know a homosexual living an overcoming life in an Apostolic church.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by tv1a

No one said straight people were not promiscuous. We were discussing the definition of monogamy in the homosexual community.
My view of addictions is scriptural. God does not give partial freedom from addictions. Whom the Son has set free is free indeed. The struggle occurs when the flesh doesn't line up with the Spirit. You cannot support that God wants people to struggle and not be free. I know people who have been delivered from homosexuality. I know others who struggle. The difference between deliverance and the struggling is when the man is aligned with the Spirit to receive deliverance.

When Jesus delivered people from demonic control, it wasn't a partial deliverance. Cite a biblical example where Jesus performed a partial miracle. Paul's thorn in the flesh is at best unprovable speculation.

you'll have to provide a source outside of your speculation where your definition of monogamy in the gay community is given. i have gay friends and i've kept half an eye on the gay issue and my understanding is that monogamy to gays is the same as monogamy for straights. I think we can both agree that promiscuity exits on both sides of the swing. My point was that you seem to be connecting the two and I don't necessarily see that connection in a general sense.

If Paul had a thorn in the flesh was he not free or was he still on bondage. Obviously he tried to align himself with the Spirit but God disallowed it and kept him in his condition against Paul's wishes.

[ronharvey]

Originally Posted by jimmyrrs

From my studing it was his eyesight (maybe blindness setting in) that was bad, not a sinful weakness in his life.

I believe it was a speech impediment.

Even in his letters he referred to people talking about his inability to 'speak' in public eloquently but was able to pen eloquently.

My opinion only of course.

[berkeley]

Very few are monogamous in the sense that you think of it.

One-at-a-time... One in the morning.. one at noon... one in the evening. One... not necessarily the same one.

[tv1a]

My point was the definition of monogamy is different. I live in an area surrounded by the culture. Not just friends, but the last job I had, the workforce had a visible amount of homosexuals.

With all due respect, to really understand homosexuality, one needs to have both eyes on the issue.

Studies show homosexuals on average have more sexual partners than heterosexuals. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule.

Even if homosexuality wasn't a sin, gay people live 8-15 years less than straight people, have more health problems, and have more emotional problems. The emotional problems by homophobes pale in comparison to the emotional disasters the homosexuals cause each other. It's like they went to an upci church to learn how to destroy a person's emotions.

What the gay community is presenting to the public is not what is going on in gay usa.

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

you'll have to provide a source outside of your speculation where your definition of monogamy in the gay community is given. i have gay friends and i've kept half an eye on the gay issue and my understanding is that monogamy to gays is the same as monogamy for straights. I think we can both agree that promiscuity exits on both sides of the swing. My point was that you seem to be connecting the two and I don't necessarily see that connection in a general sense.

If Paul had a thorn in the flesh was he not free or was he still on bondage. Obviously he tried to align himself with the Spirit but God disallowed it and kept him in his condition against Paul's wishes.

[jimmyrrs]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Yes, I'm familiar with that passage of scripture. (Gal 6:11)
He wrote with large letters, indicating he may have had vision problems.

But there's nothing anywhere that says that that was his "thorn in the flesh".

Very true.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Yes, I'm familiar with that passage of scripture. (Gal 6:11)
He wrote with large letters, indicating he may have had vision problems.

But there's nothing anywhere that says that that was his "thorn in the flesh".

Or Paul was like SOME FOLKS ARE here and like to EPHASIZE A LOT OF WORDS......