Can A Plurality Of Elders Work?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Chan

I think this plurality is the only correct model for the Church, with the bishop (pastor) as the overseeing elder.

Sounds the same as nearly all groups practice. One Pastor several Elders.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Chan View Post
I think this plurality is the only correct model for the Church, with the bishop (pastor) as the overseeing elder.

There has been scripture demonstrated for anointing multiple elders... where is the concept of one overseeing bishop found?

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

There has been scripture demonstrated for anointing multiple elders... where is the concept of one overseeing bishop found?

I understand what you're saying. However, all one has to do is to look at God's created order of things. Everything and all groups have a leader/head. regardless of whether we can make an argument from scriptural silence, all we have to do il look how things happened in scripture. There were alway singular leaders over armies, kingdoms, powers of darkness etc.

Plurality really sounds good, but RARELY works. It may work in a few isolated instances, but it is not the norm in scripture, history, nature or reality.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

I understand what you're saying. However, all one has to do is to look at God's created order of things. Everything and all groups have a leader/head. regardless of whether we can make an argument from scriptural silence, all we have to do il look how things happened in scripture. There were alway singular leaders over armies, kingdoms, powers of darkness etc.

Plurality really sounds good, but RARELY works. It may work in a few isolated instances, but it is not the norm in scripture, history, nature or reality.

Isn't that head Christ?

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

There has been scripture demonstrated for anointing multiple elders... where is the concept of one overseeing bishop found?

The Greek word for bishop (episkopos) essentially means an overseeing elder; it's inherent in the title.

1. an overseer
2. a man charged with the duty of seeing that things to be done by others are done rightly, any curator, guardian or superintendent
3. the superintendent, elder, or overseer of a Christian church

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Isn't that head Christ?

Ultimately, yes. But God has made creation in an order and that order always includes a flesh and blood leader/visionary or whatever title one cares to use. Visionary leadership rarely takes place in a committee.

Benevolent "dictatorship" works best when that leader girds himself with a towel for those whom he leads and girds himself with a sword for the enemy. There is mutual respect in that type of a situation and also accountability.

[Michael The Disciple]

99 per cent of Apostolic Churches are set up with One Pastor and then under them perhaps an Elder or two.

Not one scripture has been presented to support this set up. It is said that Elderships do not work. What is the criteria for it to work? I say it should produce the result intended by Christ.

That result is that Saints grow up into him in all things which is the head even Christ. It is that we all come to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

It is that every man be presented perfect in Christ. This is the purpose of the ministry. And on this basis I say the system used at present is a dismal failure.

Most Churches proclaim to their people they cannot even BE perfect. This is their fruit.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

99 per cent of Apostolic Churches are set up with One Pastor and then under them perhaps an Elder or two.

Not one scripture has been presented to support this set up. It is said that Elderships do not work. What is the criteria for it to work? I say it should produce the result intended by Christ.

That result is that Saints grow up into him in all things which is the head even Christ. It is that we all come to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.

It is that every man be presented perfect in Christ. This is the purpose of the ministry. And on this basis I say the system used at present is a dismal failure.

Most Churches proclaim to their people they cannot even BE perfect. This is their fruit.

The result of ANY leadership style should be those intended by Christ. When people get more hung up on the method than the results/fruit, they become unfocused.

I find that a Sr. Pastor with a leadership team works best. It allows for a visionary pastor, if we believe the Lord uses him, and the input of a team who buys into the vision as being from the Lord. This team is not a group of "yes" people, but respected peers who all desire the same thing and that is to see people saved and matured and serving. All input is respected and everyone is pulling in the same direction.

BTW, no one can be perfect. We are to be perfected. Perfecting is a process while perfect is a point. None of us will be perfect until we get to the other side.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

The result of ANY leadership style should be those intended by Christ. When people get more hung up on the method than the results/fruit, they become unfocused.

I find that a Sr. Pastor with a leadership team works best. It allows for a visionary pastor, if we believe the Lord uses him, and the input of a team who buys into the vision as being from the Lord. This team is not a group of "yes" people, but respected peers who all desire the same thing and that is to see people saved and matured and serving. All input is respected and everyone is pulling in the same direction.

BTW, no one can be perfect. We are to be perfected. Perfecting is a process while perfect is a point. None of us will be perfect until we get to the other side.

This proves my point. First off the method of leadership IS GIVEN in the New Testament. Acts 14 tells Elders were ordained in every Church. No scripture says A PASTOR was ordained for a Church. So todays Ministers have a vision not equal to that of the early Church starting right here.

But then the Ministers of today as stated earlier deny the very purpose OF THE MINISTRY!

Does the head of the Church require his people to be perfect?

Be ye therefore perfect EVEN AS your Father which is in Heaven is perfect. Matt. 5:48

So yes the fruit of todays Assemblies is obvious. One cannot say the one man system works on the basis that it IS working.

[tbpew]

sorry for the late entry (I still need to make money the old fashion way);

I think plurality is God's wisdom as a remedy for the role of men in the working of his purposes within the temporal realm of creation.

But for me, the issue goes beyond considering whether there is a scriptural setting for either the "buck-stops here" pastor or the "buck-stops-here" eldership.

IMO, the issue at the core/center, pertaining to this general topical consideration, is what specific aspects (boundaries) of the individual member (of the body of Christ) does this oversight pertain to (or have jurisdiction)?

If the realms being considered are strictly limited to the common/shared experience; provide a plurality of counsels and live in safety!

If the realms being consider involve the individual's relationship with his own master; either model has violated a God-ordained boundary.