Revisiting the "PANTS" Issue

[CC1]

Originally Posted by StMark

There are MANY who see it like this! I've talked to more than just this one pastor and the ones I have talked to run with others who see it this way.

I have seen Pastors get up in the pulpit and try to change things in one sweep only to split churches, tear families apart, there was one pastor in our area who was even receiving death threats!!!!!!

I think I would have more respect if the pastor just started over someplace else. afterall, it's the peoples' church , they built it and put their hard earned money into it.
Or, If you're going to change things, at least do it very slowly. we're an old church and our bones don't move as fast lol

Many years ago I was at dinner with a UPC asst. pastor who, along with the pastor, had come to that point. I was having dinner with him immediately after he had been counseling with a well known exUPC pastor.

I was impressed when he told me that the exUPC pastor told him that making those kinds of changes in a church was like steering a large ship. There should be no sudden moves. You have to change directions slowly.

I agree that many times it would be easier for a pastor just to leave and start over somewhere else but I also think those changes can be done in a church if the foundation is laid over time with good biblical teaching. Of course some will never make that journey as their indoctrination or conditioning is too strong after many years. Those folks should be made to feel ok if they decide to change fellowships to stay with folks who will hold to the dress code /standard they can't let go of.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by StMark

I recently spoke to a young pastor (upc) at length about the future of the upc. This is a pastor i would consider fairly conservative. HIs father was and the church still looks old time for the most part.

in the conversation,the standard issue came up and to make a long story short, he told me that within 5-10 years, that pants rule would no longer be an issue. It would only be the old timers holding on to this teaching. Furthermore, he went on to say that he also believed that we are slowly going to have to let go of this rule. I almost swallowed my teeth!!!

He went on to say that most of the younger preachers are waiting for the old gaurd to move from power do they can change these things.



My Question is this, will this change the spirit of the church? I look at the AoG. most of the ones I know (with a few exceptions) have no semblence to Pentecost. I'm not talking about wild services, but they are just plain DEAD. even some of their members complain that something is missing.
however, I do concede that some of our churches are pretty dead yet have long dresses but for the most part, we are pretty lively compared to most, even the deadest ones amongst us.

Do you agree that this enevitable in the UPC??? ( changing the dress code) or not? and will it change the consecration of the church ?

.

Mark, I think there are many that feel as my wife and I do, that skirts are more feminine, and generally are a good way for women to show Christian modesty in dress. However it is NOT about abominations in Duet., Salvation, or a requirement to all women everywhere.

Naturally, with this view comes a tolerance that was perhaps a bit uncommon 10 - 20 years ago.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Mark, I think there are many that feel as my wife and I do, that dresses are more feminine, and generally a good way to show modesty. However it is NOT about abominations in Duet., Salvation, or a requirement to all women everywhere.

Naturally, with this view comes a tolerance that was a bit uncommon 10 - 20 years ago.

Folks,

Please read this above. Absolute proof that being on TV IS that slippery slope we have all heard about!

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

I like this guys innocence.

Ok... well this is the way my assembly does it. So what's the worse scenario, if a sister wears a pair of pants for a little while longer, waiting to be convinced or convicted, rather than put on a skirt quick to conform? If it takes a while for the women of the assembly I pastor one day to get the "skirt thing" that's fine with me, their pants won't embarass me. My future wife won't be in pants, but that's because she'll be under my authority. Another man's wife is not under my authority and therefore not my responsibility.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Ok... well this is the way my assembly does it. So what's the worse scenario, if a sister wears a pair of pants for a little while longer, waiting to be convinced or convicted, rather than put on a skirt quick to conform? If it takes a while for the women of the assembly I pastor one day to get the "skirt thing" that's fine with me, their pants won't embarass me. My future wife won't be in pants, but that's because she'll be under my authority. Another man's wife is not under my authority and therefore not my responsibility.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

Hmmm...my wife was raised UPC until she was about 32 and we started attending an exUPC church.

So she has been wearing pants now for about 24 years and hasn't been convicted or convinced to not wear them yet!

In many situations her slacks are much more modest than skirts or dresses.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by CC1

Many years ago I was at dinner with a UPC asst. pastor who, along with the pastor, had come to that point. I was having dinner with him immediately after he had been counseling with a well known exUPC pastor.

I was impressed when he told me that the exUPC pastor told him that making those kinds of changes in a church was like steering a large ship. There should be no sudden moves. You have to change directions slowly.

I agree that many times it would be easier for a pastor just to leave and start over somewhere else but I also think those changes can be done in a church if the foundation is laid over time with good biblical teaching. Of course some will never make that journey as their indoctrination or conditioning is too strong after many years. Those folks should be made to feel ok if they decide to change fellowships to stay with folks who will hold to the dress code /standard they can't let go of.

You know with modern fashion being the way it is, pants are no longer considered men's apparel, unless with full conviction any man will tell me they can go to Dillards or Macy's and shop in the woman's department for flowery capris pants.

The church has had to find another reason to be against women wearing pants and nowadays it is because they are considered immodest. Look at some of the young girls nowadays, and those skirts and tight tops that are being allowed as the "uniform" are not modest, regardless how low the hem.

The problem here is that the church as stigmatized a normal every day behavior as sin. This is why it is so difficult to steer the ship, you have to unbrainwash an entire socioreligious culture.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by CC1

Many years ago I was at dinner with a UPC asst. pastor who, along with the pastor, had come to that point. I was having dinner with him immediately after he had been counseling with a well known exUPC pastor.

I was impressed when he told me that the exUPC pastor told him that making those kinds of changes in a church was like steering a large ship. There should be no sudden moves. You have to change directions slowly.

I agree that many times it would be easier for a pastor just to leave and start over somewhere else but I also think those changes can be done in a church if the foundation is laid over time with good biblical teaching. Of course some will never make that journey as their indoctrination or conditioning is too strong after many years. Those folks should be made to feel ok if they decide to change fellowships to stay with folks who will hold to the dress code /standard they can't let go of.

for some reason,things are starting to change more rapidly CC. The youth of the UPC in general are totally different then when you or even I were coming up. There are some that will conform simply because they long for affirmation but others say that the times demand change.
I honestly don't know what to think sometimes. I see those who have changed and lost too much. I see that compromise has gone from dress to now moral issues are on the table. maybe not everywhere yet, but it's creeping in slowly

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Ok... well this is the way my assembly does it. So what's the worse scenario, if a sister wears a pair of pants for a little while longer, waiting to be convinced or convicted, rather than put on a skirt quick to conform? If it takes a while for the women of the assembly I pastor one day to get the "skirt thing" that's fine with me, their pants won't embarass me. My future wife won't be in pants, but that's because she'll be under my authority. Another man's wife is not under my authority and therefore not my responsibility.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

It was a compliment. You seem to be genuine

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by CC1

Folks,

Please read this above. Absolute proof that being on TV IS that slippery slope we have all heard about!

On the contrary, we had these views before TV.

BTW, noone watching the show seemed to think we were on a "slippery slope" on this issue.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Mark, I think there are many that feel as my wife and I do, that skirts are more feminine, and generally are a good way for women to show Christian modesty in dress. However it is NOT about abominations in Duet., Salvation, or a requirement to all women everywhere.

Naturally, with this view comes a tolerance that was perhaps a bit uncommon 10 - 20 years ago.

I also still think that a skirt for women are more feminine then pants. women tend to act and sit differently and also look decidely different then a man when wearing a skirt.

If Duet 22 accounts for nothing, then where do we apply any distinction between the sexes ?? what other scripture would we have to use?? would you advocate that every man is a law to himself????