One question we gotta answer:
When did Jesus ever tell us to hide (instead of proclaim) him, or salvation, or the gospel? (if any of them is the treasure of that parable)
44Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
I just saw this post.
If we follow the reasoning that the "purchase" is symbolic of us "giving" or abandoning ALL that we have to follow Him, then it still fits.
The hiding was temporary - very temporary in fact. In the parable the treasure was only hidden until the purchase was made. That seems to be the reason for the hiding it - to ensure that this precious thing could be obtained. IF he did not bother to hide it it would speak to the percieved lack of value...
There is no indication the treasure was hidden AFTER the acquisition. It would stand to reason that it was heralded after he had the treasure secured.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Romans 3 gives the natural state of man which is morally bankrupt thus he has nothing to buy the field or pearl with.
But He who was rich became poor that through His poverty I might be rich.
Romans 3 gives the natural state of man which is morally bankrupt thus he has nothing to buy the field or pearl with.
But He who was rich became poor that through His poverty I might be rich.
Agreed. It cannot mean giving anything that would be of value to God in exchange for salvation.
It could possibly mean abandoning ALL to follow Christ. Or to count all friends, family, and material wealth as loss in pursuit of the treasure.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
It could possibly mean abandoning ALL to follow Christ. Or to count all friends, family, and material wealth as loss in pursuit of the treasure.
This possibility, that the abandoning of all (friends, family, wealth)as loss in pursuit to follow Christ, to be the selling all to "purchase" Christ. (and supposing "purchase" and "selling" are just a figures of speech, and not literal), brings a couple questions to my mind.
1. What field could sinners "purchase", in order to have Jesus(treasure), (to which they previously had hidden Jesus in)?
2) Why would "sinners" have to hide Jesus(treasure) in a field(whatever the field is), in order to get him as the treasure?
3. How & when can sinners hide Jesus?(in order to "purchase" what we hid him in, to get him) We know to hide his word in our hearts, but our hearts cannot be the field, cause we wouldn't want to purchase our own hearts to get Jesus.
__________________ If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend. Therein is a drop of honey that catches his heart...
Abraham Lincoln
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. - Eph. 4:29
This possibility, that the abandoning of all (friends, family, wealth)as loss in pursuit to follow Christ, to be the selling all to "purchase" Christ. (and supposing "purchase" and "selling" are just a figures of speech, and not literal), brings a couple questions to my mind.
1. What field could sinners "purchase", in order to have Jesus(treasure), (to which they previously had hidden Jesus in)?
2) Why would "sinners" have to hide Jesus(treasure) in a field(whatever the field is), in order to get him as the treasure?
3. How & when can sinners hide Jesus?(in order to "purchase" what we hid him in, to get him) We know to hide his word in our hearts, but our hearts cannot be the field, cause we wouldn't want to purchase our own hearts to get Jesus.
1. The field is the earth - containing Kingdom of God.
2 & 3. Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
We must be willing to give all. Not that we pay for salvation, but because our commitment in following Christ must be above all else. Our willingness to give all we have is the "price to pay" for becoming a disciple.
The "hiding" in the parable is demonstrating the extaordinary value of the treasure which is treated with secrecy until the purchase can be made. It is not demonstrating so much that the treasure is invisible (though God is).
This is like finding a great buy on gold - One would not broadcast it, but keeps "it hidden" until he can acquire it for himself. (I don't see this as any great length of time, by the way)
BTW Shaggy, I voted that possibly either view could be reconciled with scripture.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
I'd just like to say thank you, Stephen Hoover, for starting this thread.
Until you did, I had never even thought about this scripture... I had only heard it taught on once I believe... or explained once. And so the whole idea of it being a portrait of Christ wasn't even a consideration.
The picture of Christ purchasing us is a much better fit.
And what a picture it is!!! Beautiful!
__________________ Mrs. LPW
Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
I'd just like to say thank you, Stephen Hoover, for starting this thread.
Until you did, I had never even thought about this scripture... I had only heard it taught on once I believe... or explained once. And so the whole idea of it being a portrait of Christ wasn't even a consideration.
The picture of Christ purchasing us is a much better fit.
And what a picture it is!!! Beautiful!
You are welcome! As I said earlier I could see how both views could be symbolized in the parable.
I do find it intriguing how it may show Christ giving his ALL...
I am not so sure that I like how that would picture the church though... as having great value to be purchased with the blood of the Only Begotton.
Christ was driven to the cross, not by our value, but by His love for us who had no value to him at all. We are made relevant by His undeserving and inexplicable love. We offer God nothing of value. He is complete and lacking nothing.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
1. The field is the earth - containing Kingdom of God.
2 & 3. Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
We must be willing to give all. Not that we pay for salvation, but because our commitment in following Christ must be above all else. Our willingness to give all we have is the "price to pay" for becoming a disciple.
The "hiding" in the parable is demonstrating the extaordinary value of the treasure which is treated with secrecy until the purchase can be made. It is not demonstrating so much that the treasure is invisible (though God is).
This is like finding a great buy on gold - One would not broadcast it, but keeps "it hidden" until he can acquire it for himself. (I don't see this as any great length of time, by the way)
BTW Shaggy, I voted that possibly either view could be reconciled with scripture.
You mentioned the field is the earth, I'm unsure how & why "sinners" purchase the earth for the treasure?
What exactly is the treasure from that point of view? salvation, discipleship, treasure in heaven?
As sinful as we are, I do believe Christ not only loved us, but saw value in us, as God called the children of Israel his treasure in Ex. 19:5, as well as it's "type" in 1 Peter 2:9
Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.” 1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation,
Bro. Hoover, I appreciate the discussion, different angles, and point of views on this, it's an interesting topic to disect in my opinion. Thanks as well from me, for opening it up.
__________________ If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend. Therein is a drop of honey that catches his heart...
Abraham Lincoln
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. - Eph. 4:29
I'm still kinda wondering if it is possible to have more than one interpretation to a parable.
Since in Matt. 13:18, Jesus gave only one interpretation of the parable of the sower.
And in Matt. 13:37, he gave only one interpretation to the parable of the tares of the field.
I don't recall ever reading a parable that Jesus told in which he explained that one particular parable to have multiple meanings.
Is it possible for there to be more than one interpretation, or in other words to mean more than one "picture" that the master is trying to paint.
If in this parable, the disciples would have said, "Lord, tell us the meaning of the parable of the hidden treasure",
Would Jesus have said "Which interpretation do you want to hear?"
Or would he have said, "Theres 2 (or more) interpretations (or meanings), here they are.
It looks to me like that would be extremely confusing to the disciples that were listening to the parable trying to figure out its meaning.
__________________ If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend. Therein is a drop of honey that catches his heart...
Abraham Lincoln
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. - Eph. 4:29
You mentioned the field is the earth, I'm unsure how & why "sinners" purchase the earth for the treasure?
I said the the field could be the "earth - containing the Kingdom of God", or the Kingdom of God on Earth. (I am distinguishing here from the Kingdom "in heaven".)
Good question. Why do sinners buy into the Kingdom of God? They certainly would not do so because they desire persecution, or desire to be hated of all men... They will only truely buy into the kingdom when they have discovered the treasure of Jesus Christ. It is then that they gladly forsake all other ambition in pursuit of the field containing the treasure.
What exactly is the treasure from that point of view? salvation, discipleship, treasure in heaven?
See above. The treasure is Christ with all that he brings - the gospel, salvation/eternal life.
As sinful as we are, I do believe Christ not only loved us, but saw value in us, as God called the children of Israel his treasure in Ex. 19:5, as well as it's "type" in 1 Peter 2:9
Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.” 1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation,
This could spawn another thread, but I would contend that we, outside of His unmerited favor towards us, are without value, dispensable, and rightfully could be loathed by God for our sinfulness.
It is only when we accept the work of cross and become sons of God that we become "holy" and a special treasure unto God. Even then it is only because of Him and who He is in us - not that we are any great thing of ourselves.
I think God is complete and lacking nothing.
Bro. Hoover, I appreciate the discussion, different angles, and point of views on this, it's an interesting topic to disect in my opinion. Thanks as well from me, for opening it up.
I enjoy it. I am actually taking a position in some posts here that I did not have when I started the thread.
Just tonight I (for the first time) perused several commentaries on the passage. It is interesting to see learned scholars also disagree, in both new and old commentary. I really had no clue when this thread began.
Thanks for engaging!
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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