Tulsa 6

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by SavedLou

Is anyone else sick and tired of having (some) of the Tulsa crowd act like everyone else in the UPC is just some anything-goes, throw out all the standards, worldly bunch of sinners who look just like Hollywood and are barely on the other side of hell?! Give me a break. If you disagree about the TV deal, yes, you have every right to leave, but stop making everyone else feel like we have all just gone completely Charismatic and will be sitting with the pink haired lady on TBN tomorrow!!! ...

You bring up an excellent point. This same tactic is used by the American political Left when they attack the United States. Notice the following argument being used by a Berkeley, CA city councilman:

"We are confronted with an organization that can spend billions of dollars on propaganda," Anderson said. "This is not Okinawa here; we're involved in a naked act of aggression. If we can provide a space for ordinary people to express themselves against this kind of barbarity, then we should be doing it."

The United States Marines doesn't have "billions" to "spend on propaganda." Congressional budgets records reveal that. And whatever your take on US policy in Iraq might be, it's not "naked aggression" when you're responding to 12 years of continual cease fire violations and 14 UN Security Council Resolutions which threatened sanctions and the use of force.

And "barbarity" does not describe the millions of men and women who serve faithfully, putting their own lives on the line to defend our freedoms. But notice the preceding paragragh which partly describes the one hurling venom at our armed forces:

"Anderson, a former Marine who said he was "drummed out" of the corps when he took a stand against the Vietnam War, said he'd love to see the Marines high-tail it out of town."

Oh, I get it... he feels like he was "drummed out" of the club because of his committed stands of personal conscience. Okay.

That's one reason why I have to put "quote" marks around the word "conservative" when applied to "conservatives" in the UPC and the OP movement in general. Their actions closely follow the behaviors of the Radical Left in the broader political world. They run around demanding new laws and ordinances until they can't get enough legislation to satisfy their hunger and so they then storm out of the public fellowship proclaiming themselves to be martyrs of conscience when they themselves started the whole argument to begin with.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by George

My initial response is "No." After some consideration, I am leaning towards "Yes." WPF has been in the making for a couple years. If he would have won the the election, he would have had nearly eight months to work to direct in a "preferred Apostolic" way. He would have believed more UPC would follow him and thereby make the WPF larger.

Well, I had heard about public statements that seemed to indicate that he would have, but I agree, the evidence seems to be that this was in the pipeline for quite a while.

That is even more disheartening to me than my original thought.

[Dan'D]

Originally Posted by SavedLou

Is anyone else sick and tired of having (some) of the Tulsa crowd act like everyone else in the UPC is just some anything-goes, throw out all the standards, worldly bunch of sinners who look just like Hollywood and are barely on the other side of hell?! Give me a break. If you disagree about the TV deal, yes, you have every right to leave, but stop making everyone else feel like we have all just gone completely Charismatic and will be sitting with the pink haired lady on TBN tomorrow!!! Last time I checked the UPC was still Pentecostal and therefore considered very conservative next to mainstream Christianity. Oh and as I said on another thread, we have evolved over the years. We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers, right? So the UPC didn't leave anyone. It has (like any other faith) made gradual changes over time. That's called progress!

Feeling guilty?

Dan’D

[Dan'D]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

Well, I had heard about public statements that seemed to indicate that he would have, but I agree, the evidence seems to be that this was in the pipeline for quite a while.

That is even more disheartening to me than my original thought.

Its called hoping for the best but planning for the worse.

Dan’D

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Dan'D

Feeling guilty?

Dan’D

Notice what she said.....

"We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers".

Isn't that the point you are trying to make!?

[jrLA]

Originally Posted by SavedLou

Is anyone else sick and tired of having (some) of the Tulsa crowd act like everyone else in the UPC is just some anything-goes, throw out all the standards, worldly bunch of sinners who look just like Hollywood and are barely on the other side of hell?! Give me a break. If you disagree about the TV deal, yes, you have every right to leave, but stop making everyone else feel like we have all just gone completely Charismatic and will be sitting with the pink haired lady on TBN tomorrow!!! Last time I checked the UPC was still Pentecostal and therefore considered very conservative next to mainstream Christianity. Oh and as I said on another thread, we have evolved over the years. We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers, right? So the UPC didn't leave anyone. It has (like any other faith) made gradual changes over time. That's called progress!

I agree with you SavedLou...
It gets really old. We are still what we've always been. I know I haven't moved! Maybe the Tulsa group is just jealous and grasping at straws, trying to make their reasoning sound better themselves!

[Rev]

Originally Posted by jrLA

I agree with you SavedLou...
It gets really old. We are still what we've always been. I know I haven't moved! Maybe the Tulsa group is just jealous and grasping at straws, trying to make their reasoning sound better themselves!

"We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers"

Sorry but you are not agreeing with her.

You said....

We are still what we've always been

She said.....

"We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers"

[jrLA]

Originally Posted by Rev

"We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers"

Sorry but you are not agreeing with her.

You said....

We are still what we've always been

She said.....

"We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers"

Not so friend, I feel fundamentally we are what we've always been. Sure the church has changed, but the basic HAVE NOT! Why do so many major on such minors?

[Rev]

Originally Posted by jrLA

Not so friend, I feel fundamentally we are what we've always been. Sure the church has changed, but the basic HAVE NOT! Why do so many major on such minors?

Because of sin and the human nature. I'm sure you have heard the term give them an inch and they will take a mile.

Just look at the people on this site that call themselves pentecostal.

I saw a church that was the most powerful church I ever walked into become a total mess. And all the pastor did was quit preaching standards.

It went from having someone get the H.G. just about every service to where now they are lucky to have someone get the H.G. every 6 mos.

[Dan'D]

Originally Posted by Rev

Notice what she said.....

"We ALL look and think a lot differently than our founding fathers".

Isn't that the point you are trying to make!?

it is just not the TV. TV is just the straw that broke the camals back.

My point is, Some of our churches don't look Pentecostal. Some pastor have allowed to much into our churches.

I know of one will known pastor who allowed lady who had earring on run there lady’s fellowship.

Our standard of holiness has got to be kept up.

I don’t want my children running with the church up the street unless they believe likes us and there standards are similar to ours.

When I was a child the difference from one UPC church to the other was miner at worst now it is Major at best.

Dan’D