*T.L Craft: A further look into His Departure*

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by meBNme

Oh, and don't forget, If you question the validity of the unverified claim, you are labeled a "denier" or flat earth'er etc etc.

I thought it made you a basher of the one who stated the claim.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by josh

Misinformation continues to abound.

Nobody is offering positions...the format hasn't even been firmly decided. Bro Craft did the contacting, nobody solicited him at all.

You guys are a riot.

Oh, by the way CC will follow TLC. He's already committed.

your dead on about misinformation but you might as well give up they think they know everything about tulsa and the all the uc men. we will just have to wait until after the meeting and when we show them that we were right they will get some other subject and use their misinformation again.

[Dora]

It will all come out in the wash...

JCM needs to stay gone...IMHO

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

Honorable, Right Reverend, Bishop of video ministries.


I have no interest in that group. Absalom's altar hold no interest to me. It is never the will of God to over throw or stand against the ones God put in power.

Bro. I'd be careful making statements like this. (I don't know who used it first and it really doesn't matter to me) To call the meeting at Tulsa, "Absalom's altar," is one of the most disrespectful and defamatory statements I have seen yet. To speak this way of men of God who stand on their convictions and principles IMO is malicious and uncalled for.

"Absalom's altar" further indicates that you believe the men who are sponsoring this meeting, and the men who will attend, are in rebellion much like the household of Korah. Absalom was in total rebellion against his father and tried to wrest the kingdom out of his hand by subversion and deception, This is not the case with these men.

While your statement concerning those who withstand or overthrow those put in power by God is correct, the context in which you are trying to use it is errant. None of these men (the Tulsa group) are trying to overthrow, or withstand "God's" appointed men. In fact rather than "overthrow" them by voting them out, or slandering their name, they have chosen to leave and follow their own conscience. (Yet they are constantly denigrated by many) All of the men that are the "sponsors" are men of integrity and character, who have not and are not spewing out hatred for or to the UPCI, and in fact have repeatedly stated their love, respect, and honor for the men with who they have walked together with for many years.

So I ask......if the organization takes a turn in a direction you don't agree with, will you "overthrow, or withstand" the leaders by leaving?

Nothing personal Bro. I just think we need to be careful what bandwagon we jump on!

[Joseph Miller]

I guess we all have our opinions and view points.

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

I guess we all have our opinions and view points.

Very Very true! But in reality do you really believe that the tulsa meeting equals Absalom's altar? Just curious, and if so, on what grounds?

[Dora]

Originally Posted by bishoph

Bro. I'd be careful making statements like this. (I don't know who used it first and it really doesn't matter to me) To call the meeting at Tulsa, "Absalom's altar," is one of the most disrespectful and defamatory statements I have seen yet. To speak this way of men of God who stand on their convictions and principles IMO is malicious and uncalled for.

"Absalom's altar" further indicates that you believe the men who are sponsoring this meeting, and the men who will attend, are in rebellion much like the household of Korah. Absalom was in total rebellion against his father and tried to wrest the kingdom out of his hand by subversion and deception, This is not the case with these men.

While your statement concerning those who withstand or overthrow those put in power by God is correct, the context in which you are trying to use it is errant. None of these men (the Tulsa group) are trying to overthrow, or withstand "God's" appointed men. In fact rather than "overthrow" them by voting them out, or slandering their name, they have chosen to leave and follow their own conscience. (Yet they are constantly denigrated by many) All of the men that are the "sponsors" are men of integrity and character, who have not and are not spewing out hatred for or to the UPCI, and in fact have repeatedly stated their love, respect, and honor for the men with who they have walked together with for many years.

So I ask......if the organization takes a turn in a direction you don't agree with, will you "overthrow, or withstand" the leaders by leaving?

Nothing personal Bro. I just think we need to be careful what bandwagon we jump on!

Isn't this up for interpretation? What do you call bashing other preachers who don't hold as strict of a stand on holiness issues? Separating your flock by discouraging fellowship with other Pentecostals in your district - even family members if they attend a church the pastor disapproves? Holding your own "holier" camp meetings, youth conferences, etc.? Preaching that folks who hold lesser standards are going to hell? Openly blasting officials?

Are these truly men of Honor, Loyalty and Integrity?

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by Dora

Isn't this up for interpretation? What do you call bashing other preachers who don't hold as strict of a stand on holiness issues? Separating your flock by discouraging fellowship with other Pentecostals in your district - even family members if they attend a church the pastor disapproves? Holding your own "holier" camp meetings, youth conferences, etc.? Preaching that folks who hold lesser standards are going to hell? Openly blasting officials?

Are these truly men of Honor, Loyalty and Integrity?

Do you know if any of the "sponsors" of the Tulsa meeting have done the things of which you speak? Sure there may be "UC" men that do such, and that does not make them right, however, to lump every "UC" minister into the same mold because of a few is not accurate.

[Joseph Miller]

Bishoph you have a PM

[Dora]

Originally Posted by bishoph

Do you know if any of the "sponsors" of the Tulsa meeting have done the things of which you speak? Sure there may be "UC" men that do such, and that does not make them right, however, to lump every "UC" minister into the same mold because of a few is not accurate.

The LEADERS of this pack are the very ones who are doing these things. The sad thing is they are perpetuating this stuff to younger skulls full of mush ministers who admire them for some reason...