Christians and Politics

[diakonos]

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Nicodemus, did you bail on your thread?

No, I’m reading and going to through what everyone has written in response to the subject. And then I’ll post questions. This has been a subject of interest of mine for the past couple years.

As of right now, I do not believe a believer should be involved with any type of political atmosphere. However, not trying to make doctrine out of what I personally believe. Wanting to see how other people believe.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Since the powers that be are ordained of God, we know that God is ultimately in control. Even though my Sister guilt tripped me into voting, I believe God's purpose will be done on earth as it is in heaven whether I vote or not.

I am not saying God isn’t in control.

However in the atmosphere of the government, where does Gods will and man’s will come into play?

Meaning, does the will of an individual or a nation fall to the will of God?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I am not saying God isn’t in control.

However in the atmosphere of the government, where does Gods will and man’s will come into play?

Meaning, does the will of an individual or a nation fall to the will of God?

God can and does move on people, even unjust kings, to do His will. God blesses or punishes, even destroys people or nations, as He deems appropriate. Who can determine exactly how He moves to accomplish His will?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

No, I’m reading and going to through what everyone has written in response to the subject. And then I’ll post questions. This has been a subject of interest of mine for the past couple years.

Ok, was just wondering as it seemed things slowed down all of a sudden.

As of right now, I do not believe a believer should be involved with any type of political atmosphere.

What does that mean? What is a "political atmosphere", and what do you mean by not being involved with it?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I am not saying God isn’t in control.

However in the atmosphere of the government, where does Gods will and man’s will come into play?

Meaning, does the will of an individual or a nation fall to the will of God?

"Atmosphere of the government"? What is that?

And what do you mean by "will of an individual or nation fall to the will of God"?

[coksiw]

God commanded Noah to establish judges (governments) to bring judgment upon evil:

[Genesis 9:6 NKJV] 6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man.

Yet, governments fail to do their job many times, and they themselves become workers of evil.

But how the Sovereignty of God is manifested upon them?

These are examples verses:

* Doing miracles against their plans: Gen 11:1-9
* Frustrating their plans and council: Psalms 33:10-11, probably blurring their understanding or ability to see/consider certain things; or even causing events to make their plan fail.
* Deciding the fate of wars: Psalms 33:13-17
* Miraculous intervention for his people: Psalms 33:18-19, Daniel
* Influencing their planning, usually by causing events to make them do something, or by allowing spirits to persuade them in one direction: 2 Kings 24:2, Luke 2:1, 1 King 22:22

The people of God is currently dispersed among nations. Our relationship with the gov of the countries we are in is:

* Working for them: Phil 4:22, Rom 16:23, Daniel
* Prayer for them to be able to bring peace locally: Jer 29:7, 1 Tim 2:1-2
* Obeying them, as long as they don't make us disobey God: Rom 13:1-2, Acts 5:29, 1Pe 2:13-17

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Rather than retreating from the field of battle and allowing the wicked to have free reign over society, we are to be the heralds of Christ's ascension to the Throne. That is to say, we are to uphold the position that Christ is ruler of the nations and His Law-Word is the true "Supreme Law of the Land".

And I think this is the single biggest problem today's Christians have, in regards to the state of society: they really don't believe that Christ is King.

Jesus was the literal heir to the throne of David, and the rightful ruler of all 12 tribes. Moreover, He was the rightful heir of God Almighty, and thus His inheritance is the entire world. He died. But He rose again from the dead.

That means He is STILL the legal, lawful heir of the Davidic monarchy, in fact He is currently the reigning monarch over the 12 tribes and over the whole earth. When He said "ALL power in heaven and in earth is given unto Me" He meant exactly what He said.

But most Christians today do not really believe this. They do not believe that Jesus Christ is just as much of a genuine reigning monarch as King Charles of England is. They do not believe that Jesus Christ is just as lawfully, legally, and actually, and personally the Chief Executive as much as if not more so than any current, past, or future President of the US.

Somehow, in the minds of most Christians, when Jesus ascended into heaven He left the "real world" and ascended into the realm of "fantasy and myth". He is viewed as "Lord" only metaphorically, not really truly and actually. He is Lord of some nice morals and ethical behaviour for those who choose to "take the leap of faith" and adopt the "Christian religion".

But the truth is He is Lord whether anyone believes in Him or not. He is the actual King of Israel. The real, legitimate, living, reigning monarch established by Israel's law and by God's decree. That means His kingdom is not just "a neat idea". It is a real, actual, lawful, legal, genuine, legitimate KINGDOM, with real laws and a real citizenship.

When people realise this, it changes their entire perspective on the whole subject of "politics".

Many try to say "religion and politics shouldn't mix" but that is silly. Politics is "how the nation should be governed." Religion is "how people should obey God". BOTH are "how are people to live"? The nation is the people, there is no such thing as a nation without people. Politics is always somebody's MORAL LAW being put into effect. Politics IS "religion" and vice versa.

If men are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, then men's politics are to be governed by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Trying to stuff God into some cupboard of life separate from "politics" is an affront to God and a denial of His Godhood and His authority. It is literally treason against Christ.

If you recognise the Federal government as the lawful US government, then if you decided that you will only listen to the Federal government when it comes to your setting foot on say a US military base or a US Post Office, but otherwise you shall ignore federal law and in fact promote the idea that the Federal government has no say so whatsoever outside of the limits of Washington, DC, would you not be considered an insurrectionist? An outlaw? A rebel?

How much more so if you are a Christian, a citizen of the kingdom of Christ, and yet you think to let His enemies run everything outside of the four walls of your church building?

It is the enemies of Christ who invented the very concept of "separation of church and state". Caesar didn't care that Christians believed they would go to heaven when they died or that Jesus pardoned their sins. But Caesar most certainly DID care about the idea that Jesus is KING, that Jesus is THE SON OF GOD. Which has always been a very POLITICAL title.

When Christians discover that they have in fact enrolled in citizenship in an real actual kingdom, the Israel of GOD, and that Christ is REALLY KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS, they will begin to act like it, and begin to live as subjects of the King. They will advance the interests of Christ's Kingdom in all areas of life, including whatever "political life" they might be involved in.

And the enemies of the Gospel are actually scared of THAT happening, far more than they give one whit or hoot about whether or not you "go to church" or what you believe about the "afterlife" or whatever other belief you may hold. Believe what you want, they say, as long as nobody else has to pay you any mind.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

And I think this is the single biggest problem today's Christians have, in regards to the state of society: they really don't believe that Christ is King.

Jesus was the literal heir to the throne of David, and the rightful ruler of all 12 tribes. Moreover, He was the rightful heir of God Almighty, and thus His inheritance is the entire world. He died. But He rose again from the dead.

That means He is STILL the legal, lawful heir of the Davidic monarchy, in fact He is currently the reigning monarch over the 12 tribes and over the whole earth. When He said "ALL power in heaven and in earth is given unto Me" He meant exactly what He said.

But most Christians today do not really believe this. They do not believe that Jesus Christ is just as much of a genuine reigning monarch as King Charles of England is. They do not believe that Jesus Christ is just as lawfully, legally, and actually, and personally the Chief Executive as much as if not more so than any current, past, or future President of the US.

Somehow, in the minds of most Christians, when Jesus ascended into heaven He left the "real world" and ascended into the realm of "fantasy and myth". He is viewed as "Lord" only metaphorically, not really truly and actually. He is Lord of some nice morals and ethical behaviour for those who choose to "take the leap of faith" and adopt the "Christian religion".

But the truth is He is Lord whether anyone believes in Him or not. He is the actual King of Israel. The real, legitimate, living, reigning monarch established by Israel's law and by God's decree. That means His kingdom is not just "a neat idea". It is a real, actual, lawful, legal, genuine, legitimate KINGDOM, with real laws and a real citizenship.

When people realise this, it changes their entire perspective on the whole subject of "politics".

Many try to say "religion and politics shouldn't mix" but that is silly. Politics is "how the nation should be governed." Religion is "how people should obey God". BOTH are "how are people to live"? The nation is the people, there is no such thing as a nation without people. Politics is always somebody's MORAL LAW being put into effect. Politics IS "religion" and vice versa.

If men are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, then men's politics are to be governed by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Trying to stuff God into some cupboard of life separate from "politics" is an affront to God and a denial of His Godhood and His authority. It is literally treason against Christ.

If you recognise the Federal government as the lawful US government, then if you decided that you will only listen to the Federal government when it comes to your setting foot on say a US military base or a US Post Office, but otherwise you shall ignore federal law and in fact promote the idea that the Federal government has no say so whatsoever outside of the limits of Washington, DC, would you not be considered an insurrectionist? An outlaw? A rebel?

How much more so if you are a Christian, a citizen of the kingdom of Christ, and yet you think to let His enemies run everything outside of the four walls of your church building?

It is the enemies of Christ who invented the very concept of "separation of church and state". Caesar didn't care that Christians believed they would go to heaven when they died or that Jesus pardoned their sins. But Caesar most certainly DID care about the idea that Jesus is KING, that Jesus is THE SON OF GOD. Which has always been a very POLITICAL title.

When Christians discover that they have in fact enrolled in citizenship in an real actual kingdom, the Israel of GOD, and that Christ is REALLY KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS, they will begin to act like it, and begin to live as subjects of the King. They will advance the interests of Christ's Kingdom in all areas of life, including whatever "political life" they might be involved in.

And the enemies of the Gospel are actually scared of THAT happening, far more than they give one whit or hoot about whether or not you "go to church" or what you believe about the "afterlife" or whatever other belief you may hold. Believe what you want, they say, as long as nobody else has to pay you any mind.

Jesus is are ONLY PRESIDENT.

Thank you my brother for this post.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Jesus is are ONLY PRESIDENT.

Thank you my brother for this post.

Yes indeed, that's the message.