A Handmaids Tale

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

So only right-wingers can be racist nationalists.
Got it.
Then you want to change it from a simple left-wing/right-wing narrative to one where "well they are a right-wing in all the bad parts", but "the parts I like are left-wing".
Got it.
Was Abraham Lincoln right or left wing...

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

But this would only be feasible in an agrarian patriarchal society right?

You're right. However, there are principles that can be gleaned from the Jubilee and agrarian laws of the OT.

First - Nothing is truly ours, all things belong to God.
Second - We are only stewards of all that we have, and God's desire is that we properly distribute our wealth to ensure that none are lacking in the basics as it relates to living in our society.
Third - Interest (usury) is a sin in that it tends to only increase the burden on those who were already burdened to need a loan.
Fourth - Extended indebtedness isn't God's will. God would favor releasing all debts, servitudes, and contracts every 7 years.

I'm sure more principles could be considered, but those are the first to come to mind. Biblically speaking, one does business and acquires wealth not to serve self, but to provide for others. And so rather it be the poor tithe or a tax to fund food stamps, the government isn't taking what belongs to an individual and giving it to another. The government (God's ordained agent of both civil and social justice) is managing steward ship of God's provision to ensure that none are destitute. Of course, if one believes this, it is the one who is saying, "Wait, this is mine, all mine, no one else's.", who is a thief, not the one collecting the poor tithe or the welfare tax, for it is their sacred duty to do so. This might explain some of the statements made by church fathers down through the centuries. For example,

"The rich man argues, Whom am I wronging so long as I keep what is my own? Tell me, just what things are your own? Where did you get them to make them an inseparable feature of your life? If every one were to take for himself simply what sufficed for his use, and left what was over and above to the man in want, there would be no distinction of rich and poor. Were you not born naked? Shall you not return naked to the earth? Whence, then, the goods you now possess? If you ascribe them to fate, you are godless, neither recognizing the Creator nor being grateful to the giver. But you acknowledge they are from God. Tell us then the reason why you received them. Is God unfair in the unequal distribution of the good things of life? Why is it that you are rich and that another is in need? Isn't it wholly that you may win the reward of kindness and of faithful stewardship, and that he may be honored with the great prize of patience? Now after seizing all things in your insatiable greed, and thus shutting out others, do you really think you are wronging no man? Who is the man of greed? He that is not content with a sufficiency. Who is the thief? He who seized everybody's goods. What are you but a greedy miser? What are you but a thief? The things you received to dispense to others, these you make your own. The man who steals a coat from another is called a thief. Is he who can clothe a naked man and will not, worthy of any other name? The bread, which you keep in the store, is the hungry man's bread. The cloak, which you guard in the chest, belongs to the naked man. The sandals rotting in your house belong to him who goes barefoot. The silver you hide away belongs to the needy. Thus it is that you are wronging as many men as you might help if you chose." ~ St. Basil

I won't bore you with many tedious quotes like this. But, I will say, imagine if men who thought like this were making social policy in the United States. I don't think they'd be warmly greeted by many on the right end of the spectrum today. Or, just imagine if we cultivated this perspective in churches today. Christianity would be an entirely different animal as it relates to it's sense of social advocacy.

I'm more interested in how the early church functioned as a society. They seemed to function more as a family then I think the typical church does today.

I would have to agree with you.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Like Nero who had a young male slave castrated. Then he married the slave?
Who hated women because of his mother?

Whoops

[Esaias]

Don't worry, America won't be following the Bible any time soon. The "Christians" will make sure of that.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Don't worry, America won't be following the Bible any time soon. The "Christians" will make sure of that.

Shhh

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Don't worry, America won't be following the Bible any time soon. The "Christians" will make sure of that.

Post of the month.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Don't worry, America won't be following the Bible any time soon. The "Christians" will make sure of that.

I'm over here wondering when the church will start following the Bible.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Don't worry, America won't be following the Bible any time soon. The "Christians" will make sure of that.

I want to follow NT Christianity, not the OT laws is the only thing. In the Handmaid's tale they were following OT law.

I thought it would be interesting to consider how a 2 Thess 2 man of sin could arise.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You're right. However, there are principles that can be gleaned from the Jubilee and agrarian laws of the OT.

First - Nothing is truly ours, all things belong to God.
Second - We are only stewards of all that we have, and God's desire is that we properly distribute our wealth to ensure that none are lacking in the basics as it relates to living in our society.
Third - Interest (usury) is a sin in that it tends to only increase the burden on those who were already burdened to need a loan.
Fourth - Extended indebtedness isn't God's will. God would favor releasing all debts, servitudes, and contracts every 7 years.

I'm sure more principles could be considered, but those are the first to come to mind. Biblically speaking, one does business and acquires wealth not to serve self, but to provide for others. And so rather it be the poor tithe or a tax to fund food stamps, the government isn't taking what belongs to an individual and giving it to another. The government (God's ordained agent of both civil and social justice) is managing steward ship of God's provision to ensure that none are destitute. Of course, if one believes this, it is the one who is saying, "Wait, this is mine, all mine, no one else's.", who is a thief, not the one collecting the poor tithe or the welfare tax, for it is their sacred duty to do so. This might explain some of the statements made by church fathers down through the centuries. For example,

"The rich man argues, Whom am I wronging so long as I keep what is my own? Tell me, just what things are your own? Where did you get them to make them an inseparable feature of your life? If every one were to take for himself simply what sufficed for his use, and left what was over and above to the man in want, there would be no distinction of rich and poor. Were you not born naked? Shall you not return naked to the earth? Whence, then, the goods you now possess? If you ascribe them to fate, you are godless, neither recognizing the Creator nor being grateful to the giver. But you acknowledge they are from God. Tell us then the reason why you received them. Is God unfair in the unequal distribution of the good things of life? Why is it that you are rich and that another is in need? Isn't it wholly that you may win the reward of kindness and of faithful stewardship, and that he may be honored with the great prize of patience? Now after seizing all things in your insatiable greed, and thus shutting out others, do you really think you are wronging no man? Who is the man of greed? He that is not content with a sufficiency. Who is the thief? He who seized everybody's goods. What are you but a greedy miser? What are you but a thief? The things you received to dispense to others, these you make your own. The man who steals a coat from another is called a thief. Is he who can clothe a naked man and will not, worthy of any other name? The bread, which you keep in the store, is the hungry man's bread. The cloak, which you guard in the chest, belongs to the naked man. The sandals rotting in your house belong to him who goes barefoot. The silver you hide away belongs to the needy. Thus it is that you are wronging as many men as you might help if you chose." ~ St. Basil

I won't bore you with many tedious quotes like this. But, I will say, imagine if men who thought like this were making social policy in the United States. I don't think they'd be warmly greeted by many on the right end of the spectrum today. Or, just imagine if we cultivated this perspective in churches today. Christianity would be an entirely different animal as it relates to it's sense of social advocacy.



I would have to agree with you.

There you go again.
Just can't help yourself.
Many, many studies show that the LEFT gives very little to the poor.
It is the "evil" conservative right-wingers who open up their pocket books to the poor.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Amanah

I want to follow NT Christianity, not the OT laws is the only thing. In the Handmaid's tale they were following OT law.

You sure they were actually following Biblical law?

And let's assume they actually were. What does the NT say about slaves, handmaids, servants, etc?