Illegal Alien Thread

[DAII]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Illegal is illegal, Esther. How many of us go over the speed limit? If someone will break a speeding law, what makes me think they won't break other laws?

You know very well that coming to this country to try to find a job to feed a family is not the same kind of crime as holding up a bank. It may not be kosher, but it's understandable, just like we're understanding of breaking speed limit laws when we're in a hurry to get somewhere.

As for other nations--since when are we modeling ourselves after other nations? Oddly enough, when it comes to socialized healthcare, we don't want to be like other nations--we want to retain our American ideals. So on this issue, we're going to look around and see what everyone else is doing? No, we need to examine our principles, morals, and even scripture (yes, Christians should reference scripture to determine their politics), and determine what is the RIGHT thing to do.

Again, I am FOR regulations that make the border more secure. I'm also for sending anyone who has a criminal background back to where they came from. In the meantime, we have incalculable numbers of illegal immigrants already IN the country who need to be dealt with, and in a humane way that reflects American compassion and ideals.

Yes, m'am.

But of course, this is the land of the free which we obtained "legally" from those who possessed it prior.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I saw a hateful fb post the other day by a woman I know quite well, ranting and raving about people being forced to learn English before they come into this country. I have the privilege of teaching two Burmese children in my class on Wednesday nights, and although their English isn't perfect, it's pretty good. The older girl not only speaks English, but she speaks some Spanish in addition to her native language, and is able to passably read and translate a third dialect. How many of us could do that? I took two years of Spanish and I can hardly remember any of it! And yet many Americans act like these people are somehow inferior because they stumble over their words.

I don't advocate hatefulness (at all), but the lack of English-speaking skills is becoming a real problem. I live in an area that has an extremely high Hispanic population, and sometimes the communication difficulties really complicate things. I don't have a problem with people struggling with English, but it seems like a lot of them are not even trying to learn. Since this country's official language is English, I think you should learn it if you plan to live here.

I wouldn't move to China and not expect to learn their language. The point of having a common language is so that we can all communicate with each other.

[DAII]

Biggest lie ... Illegals DON'T PAY TAXES ... THE BULK PAY INCOME TAXES AND ALL PAY SALES TAXES.

I HAVE SAT WITH ILLEGALS AS THEY FILE THEIR TAX RETURNS WITH TAXPAYER IDS GIVEN TO THEM BY THE FEDERAL GOVT.

http://reason.org/news/show/122411.html

Sometimes I wonder if they are but a scapegoat.

[John Atkinson]

Originally Posted by DAII

Yes, m'am.

But of course, this is the land of the free which we obtained "legally" from those who possessed it prior.

ROFL. Not a single one of my European ancestors who immigrated here early on had a green card among them.

They came over in crusty boats that could barely make the journey, refused to pay taxes, stole jobs (like hunting) from the locals, soaked up their property and generally were violent, untrustworthy malcontents who didn't hesitate to steal whatever they wanted and kill whoever they wanted. They built their shacks and started growing stuff wherever they felt like it, then had the nerve to get upset when the owners started shooting arrows at them over it.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by John Atkinson

ROFL. Not a single one of my European ancestors who immigrated here early on had a green card among them.

They came over in crusty boats that could barely make the journey, refused to pay taxes, stole jobs (like hunting) from the locals, soaked up their property and generally were violent, untrustworthy malcontents who didn't hesitate to steal whatever they wanted and kill whoever they wanted. They built their shacks and started growing stuff wherever they felt like it, then had the nerve to get upset when the owners started shooting arrows at them over it.

Exactly John ... but some in their puffery forget their roots and how we all came here and decry with righteous indignation and puffery against those they accuse of having a sense of "entitlement" ... yet in their myopic view and scope of man's history forget and gloss over the DETAILS.

They acheived their "manifest destiny" with land grants, charters, and treaties with official seals ..... and now choose to blame society's ills on those whose backs build their roads, homes, etc ... it's so easy to have a scapegoat ....

not easy to see the fingers pointing back at us.

Yes, I do believe in the rule of law.

[John Atkinson]

Originally Posted by DAII

Exactly John ... but some in their puffery forget their roots and how we all came here and decry with righteous indignation and puffery against those they accuse of having a sense of "entitlement" ... yet in their myopic view and scope of man's history forget and gloss over the DETAILS.

They acheived their "manifest destiny" with land grants, charters, and treaties with official seals ..... and now choose to blame society's ills on those whose backs build their roads, homes, etc ... it's so easy to have a scapegoat ....

not easy to see the fingers pointing back at us.

Yes, I do believe in the rule of law.

Yeppers, even all of the Park Avenue set has someone back there who smelled worse than a goat and either stole or schemed everything he had from someone else that they consider their patriarch.

I believe in rule of law as well as the practice of mercy. I can't fault some guy who risks everything to come over here and do backbreaking work for a pittance to support his family.

Some put people like that in the same category as cartel drug runners. I guarantee you though you won't find a drug trafficker laying bricks or picking fruit for a couple of bucks an hour.

Me personally, I am not about to call immigration on anyone.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I don't advocate hatefulness (at all), but the lack of English-speaking skills is becoming a real problem. I live in an area that has an extremely high Hispanic population, and sometimes the communication difficulties really complicate things. I don't have a problem with people struggling with English, but it seems like a lot of them are not even trying to learn. Since this country's official language is English, I think you should learn it if you plan to live here.

I wouldn't move to China and not expect to learn their language. The point of having a common language is so that we can all communicate with each other.

English is one of the hardest languages to learn, ranking right up there with Chinese. Yes, if I moved to another country, I would try to learn the language--but just so I could communicate in order to survive--not to become a linguist in the new language.

Some people are just better at learning new things than others. Some of the people in our class pick up the concepts right away, and others are still struggling with the basics after months of class. One of the things we're doing is studying the test they have to take for citizenship (they have to live here for 6 years first). Newcomers who can barely understand English are expected to pass a test that most teenagers entering college couldn't pass.

I agree that learning English needs to be a priority, mainly as a survival skill. However, I resent the superiority complex that comes across in the diatribes of those who look down on anyone with a heavy accent.

[John Atkinson]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

English is one of the hardest languages to learn, ranking right up there with Chinese. Yes, if I moved to another country, I would try to learn the language--but just so I could communicate in order to survive--not to become a linguist in the new language.

Some people are just better at learning new things than others. Some of the people in our class pick up the concepts right away, and others are still struggling with the basics after months of class. One of the things we're doing is studying the test they have to take for citizenship (they have to live here for 6 years first). Newcomers who can barely understand English are expected to pass a test that most teenagers entering college couldn't pass.

I agree that learning English needs to be a priority, mainly as a survival skill. However, I resent the superiority complex that comes across in the diatribes of those who look down on anyone with a heavy accent.

Yes I agree completely. It took me years to be able to communicate effectively here in New England after immigrating from Texas. The language barrier was a huge challenge.

[MissBrattified]

Try taking this test without googling anything, phoning a friend, cracking open a reference or history book, or using any other "cheats." Get back with me on how many you or your kids can answer right the first time.

(BTW, this is a great topic for a homeschool classroom--and a great starting point for studying civics or history)

Sample Questions for the New Naturalization Test: (The copy given out for potential candidates to study)

Section A: Principles of American Democracy

1. What is the supreme law of the land?

2. What does the Constitution do?

3. The idea of self-government is in the first three words of the Constitution. What are these words?

4. What is an amendment?

5. What do we call the first ten amendments to the Constitution?

6. What is one right or freedom from the First Amendment?

7. How many amendments does the Constituion have?

8. What did the Declaration of Independence do?

9. What are two rights in the Declaration of Independence?

10. What is freedom of religion?

11. What is the economic system in the United States?

12. What is the "rule of law"?

Section B: System of Government

13. Name one branch or part of the government.

14. What stops one branch of government from becoming too powerful?

15. Who is in charge of the executive branch?

16. Who makes federal laws?

17. What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress?

18. How many U.S. Senators are there?

19. We elect a U.S. Senator for how many years?

20. Who is one of your state's U.S. Senators now?

21. The House of Representatives has how many voting members?

22. We elect a U.S. Representative for how many years?

23. Name your U.S. Representative.

24. Who does a U.S. Senator represent?

25. Why do some states have more Representatives than other states?

26. We elect a President for how many years?

27. In what month do we vote for President?

28. What is the name of the President of the United States now?

29. What is the name of the Vice President of the United States now?

30. If the President can no longer serve, who becomes President?

31. If both the President and the vice President can no longer serve, who becomes President?

32. Who is the Commander in Chief of the military?

33. Who signs bills to become laws?

34. Who vetoes bills?

35. What does the President's Cabinet do?

36. What are two Cabinet-level positions?

37. What does the judicial branch do?

38. What is the highest court in the United States?

39. How many justices are on the Supreme Court?

40. Who is the Chief Justice of the United States now?

41. Under our Constitution, some powers belong to the federal government. What is one power fo the federal government?

42. Under our Constitution, some powers belong to the states. What is one power of the state?

43. Who is the Governor of your state now?

44. What is the capital of your state?

45. What are the two major political parties in the United States?

46. What is the political party of the President now?

47. What is the name of the Speaker of the House of Representatives now?

Section C: Rights and Responsibilities

48. There are four amendments to the Constitution about who can vote. Describe one of them.

49. What is one responsibility that is only for United States citizens?*

50. Name one right only for United States citizens.

51. What are two rights of everyone living in the United States?

52. What do we show loyalty to when we say the Pledge of Allegiance?

53. What is one promise you make when you become a United States citizen?

54. How old do citizens have to be to vote for President?*

55. What are two ways that Americans can participate in their democracy?

56. When is the last day you can send in federal income tax forms?*

57. When must all men register for the Selective Service?

AMERICAN HISTORY
Section A: Colonial Period and Independence
58. What is one reason colonists came to America?

59. Who lived in America before the Europeans arrived?

60. What group of people was taken to America and sold as slaves?

61. Why did the colonists fight the British?

62. Who wrote the Declaration of Independence?

63. When was the Declaration of Independence adopted?

64. There were 13 original states. Name three.

65. What happened at the Constitutional Convention?

66. When was the Constitution written?

67. The Federalist Papers supported the passage of the U.S. Constitution.

68. What is one thing Benjamin Franklin is famous for?

69. Who is the “Father of Our Country”?

70. Who was the first President?*

Section B: 1800s
71. What territory did the United States buy from France in 1803?

72. Name one war fought by the United States in the 1800s.

73. Name the U.S. war between the North and the South.

74. Name one problem that led to the Civil War.

75. What was one important thing that Abraham Lincoln did?*

76. What did the Emancipation Proclamation do?

77. What did Susan B. Anthony do?

Section C: Recent American History and Other Important Historical Information

78. Name one war fought by the United States in the 1900s.*

79. Who was President during World War I?

80. Who was President during the Great Depression and World War II?

81. Who did the United States fight in World War II?

82. Before he was President, Eisenhower was a general. What war was he in?

83. During the Cold War, what was the main concern of the United States?

84. What movement tried to end racial discrimination?

85. What did Martin Luther King, Jr. do?*

86. What major event happened on September 11, 2001, in the United States?

87. Name one American Indian tribe in the United States.


INTEGRATED CIVICS
Section A: Geography
88. Name one of the two longest rivers in the United States.

89. What ocean is on the West Coast of the United States?

90. What ocean is on the East Coast of the United States?

91. Name one U.S. territory.

92. Name one state that borders Canada.

93. Name one state that borders Mexico.

94. What is the capital of the United States?*

95. Where is the Statue of Liberty?*

Section B: Symbols

96. Why does the flag have 13 stripes?

97. Why does the flag have 50 stars?*

98. What is the name of the national anthem?

99. When do we celebrate Independence Day?*

100. Name two national U.S. holidays.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by DAII

Biggest lie ... Illegals DON'T PAY TAXES ... THE BULK PAY INCOME TAXES AND ALL PAY SALES TAXES.

I HAVE SAT WITH ILLEGALS AS THEY FILE THEIR TAX RETURNS WITH TAXPAYER IDS GIVEN TO THEM BY THE FEDERAL GOVT.

http://reason.org/news/show/122411.html

Sometimes I wonder if they are but a scapegoat.

I heard an report for our state that if they do pay taxes the benefits they receive is more then the taxes paid to the state, so the cost of taking care of them is more then what there paying in.