How many times did you ask God for the Holy Ghost?

[Isaiah]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I don't have any children. I'm only 23. I'm not sure what to make of the bible or how it portrays God. I do see love in the story of Christ, but I think for different reasons than you. However in the end, I'm not sure if the story of Christ is anything more than a story.

You could also look up this documentary called, "The Case for Christ," and "The Case for Faith," by Lee Strobel. very good solid straight evidence. And for the record stay clear form them frogs bro... jk jk jk lol

[SRM]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Well, one thing is for sure, Jesus said to ask Him.

I asked many many times, but I was committing sins I would not admit were sins, so I did not get it. When the sins were cleared up, I got it! So, there's more to it than asking Him. Imagine Anton LaVey just asking Jesus for the Holy Ghost. Think he would get it in the state he lived in just because he asked?

Ask Him?..does not say that ..

how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Jesus is not the Father

[jfrog]

easter, with these 4 puzzle pieces in mind we can have some idea of what beliefs about the Holy Ghost are correct.

the 4 puzzle pieces:

1. receiving the Holy Ghost can happen post belief.
2. the Holy Ghost can fill a person multiple times.
3. signs such as tongues can accompany someone being filled/receiving the Holy Ghost
4. this Holy Ghost was promised to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

We can see from point 1. that anyone who speaks of the Holy Ghost as something that can never happen post belief is not speaking of the Holy Ghost that Acts is speaking of.

Some will try to tie the Holy Ghost of Acts into being born of the spirit from (John 3:5). To me this connection makes no sense when it is realized that the Holy Ghost of Acts can fill the same person multiple times as point 2. asserts. Birth is a one time thing. Birth of the Spirit is not something that seems like it ought to ever happen multiple times.

Since some of the believers in the bible received the Holy Ghost with signs such as tongues (from 3.) it seems reasonable to conclude that some of the believers today will receive the Holy Ghost with signs such as tongues.

The Holy Ghost of Acts, the one that can come post belief, post baptism, can be accompanied with signs and can fill a person multiple times was promised to all believers. So if someone mentions the Holy Ghost and leaves no place for it to do any one of these things then I don't think they are speaking of the Holy Ghost from Acts.

*note that there is one argument that would elimanate the signs and wonders accompanying the Holy Ghost for believers today. The argument comes from 1 Corinthians 13:8-10...

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

If that which is perfect has come then all the things mentioned will have been done away with. Personally I don't believe that which is perfect has come. (I always thought this was speaking of Jesus' second coming.) Some people take it to mean the new testament part of the bible. I personally can't see it that way at all because I think we still know in part.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by SRM

Ask Him?..does not say that ..

how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Jesus is not the Father

Who do you think the Holy Spirit is?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by SRM

Ask Him?..does not say that ..

how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Jesus is not the Father

I disagree. I thought we were apostolic here.

But that aside from the point. Jesus said ASK FOR IT. Period.

[easter]

Originally Posted by jfrog

easter, with these 4 puzzle pieces in mind we can have some idea of what beliefs about the Holy Ghost are correct.

the 4 puzzle pieces:

1. receiving the Holy Ghost can happen post belief.
2. the Holy Ghost can fill a person multiple times.
3. signs such as tongues can accompany someone being filled/receiving the Holy Ghost
4. this Holy Ghost was promised to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

We can see from point 1. that anyone who speaks of the Holy Ghost as something that can never happen post belief is not speaking of the Holy Ghost that Acts is speaking of.

Some will try to tie the Holy Ghost of Acts into being born of the spirit from (John 3:5). To me this connection makes no sense when it is realized that the Holy Ghost of Acts can fill the same person multiple times as point 2. asserts. Birth is a one time thing. Birth of the Spirit is not something that seems like it ought to ever happen multiple times.

Since some of the believers in the bible received the Holy Ghost with signs such as tongues (from 3.) it seems reasonable to conclude that some of the believers today will receive the Holy Ghost with signs such as tongues.

The Holy Ghost of Acts, the one that can come post belief, post baptism, can be accompanied with signs and can fill a person multiple times was promised to all believers. So if someone mentions the Holy Ghost and leaves no place for it to do any one of these things then I don't think they are speaking of the Holy Ghost from Acts.

*note that there is one argument that would elimanate the signs and wonders accompanying the Holy Ghost for believers today. The argument comes from 1 Corinthians 13:8-10...

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

If that which is perfect has come then all the things mentioned will have been done away with. Personally I don't believe that which is perfect has come. (I always thought this was speaking of Jesus' second coming.) Some people take it to mean the new testament part of the bible. I personally can't see it that way at all because I think we still know in part.

jfrog I must warn you that I see receiving the Holy Spirit differently then some here.I'll show you why....

http://www.gotquestions.org/search.p...=9&search.y=17

Do a study on pneumatology
http://www.gotquestions.org/search.p...=7&search.y=17

See I don't believe that a man seeks God I believe that God seeks the man.To clarify what I'm saying is this...
Without the Holy Spirit drawing a man to Christ it is impossible for man to understand the things of God unless the Spirit draws him to Christ.
I believe that when man believes in Christ and repents and accepts Christ the Holy Spirit seals that man(Indwells that man).You'll find that in the scriptures.

[easter]

jfrog the links I provided for you don't necessarily agree that the gifts are still ative today.
This is where I differ.The gifts are active and gave to those who love Christ and are still being gave today.

There is a scripture that explains how God is Spirit and why the world can not understand the things of God

1 Corinthians 2:14 For the natural man is not able to take in the things of the Spirit of God: for they seem foolish to him, and he is not able to have knowledge of them, because such knowledge comes only through the Spirit.

Also not everyone who receives the Holy Spirit speak in an unknown tongue right off.I'm still waiting!It's been along time I've been waiting.

You said you didn't know if Christ was just a story.No he existed and you will not find the history of him in Jewish records because they would never acknowledge Jesus but you can find a brief account of him in "The Complete Works Of Josephus" also we know Jesus existed because we know his linage,we know who his mother and Father was.We know where he was born and where he died and even have the name of the Jewish Pharisee who loaned Jesus his tomb.

Also I'm here learning about the Holy Spirit and trying to figure out the difference in how one receives the Holy Spirit.Some receive salvation and the Holy Spirit with tears and Joy and some receive with proof of tongues.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by easter

jfrog I must warn you that I see receiving the Holy Spirit differently then some here.I'll show you why....

http://www.gotquestions.org/search.p...=9&search.y=17

Do a study on pneumatology
http://www.gotquestions.org/search.p...=7&search.y=17

See I don't believe that a man seeks God I believe that God seeks the man.To clarify what I'm saying is this...
Without the Holy Spirit drawing a man to Christ it is impossible for man to understand the things of God unless the Spirit draws him to Christ.
I believe that when man believes in Christ and repents and accepts Christ the Holy Spirit seals that man(Indwells that man).You'll find that in the scriptures.

I would agree that the Holy Spirit seals a man when he accepts Christ.

I would also agree that God seeks men and draws them to him. In fact, I would say that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ is the single greatest display of God trying to draw men to him. I would also agree that the Holy Spirit is an ongoing force today that draws men to Christ. However, I would like to add that I believe there is another side to the coin. Men seek God also.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by easter

jfrog the links I provided for you don't necessarily agree that the gifts are still ative today.
This is where I differ.The gifts are active and gave to those who love Christ and are still being gave today.

There is a scripture that explains how God is Spirit and why the world can not understand the things of God

1 Corinthians 2:14 For the natural man is not able to take in the things of the Spirit of God: for they seem foolish to him, and he is not able to have knowledge of them, because such knowledge comes only through the Spirit.

Also not everyone who receives the Holy Spirit speak in an unknown tongue right off.I'm still waiting!It's been along time I've been waiting.

You said you didn't know if Christ was just a story.No he existed and you will not find the history of him in Jewish records because they would never acknowledge Jesus but you can find a brief account of him in "The Complete Works Of Josephus" also we know Jesus existed because we know his linage,we know who his mother and Father was.We know where he was born and where he died and even have the name of the Jewish Pharisee who loaned Jesus his tomb.

Also I'm here learning about the Holy Spirit and trying to figure out the difference in how one receives the Holy Spirit.Some receive salvation and the Holy Spirit with tears and Joy and some receive with proof of tongues.

I'm not sure why you cited the scripture about the World not being able to know the things of God?

As far as what I bolded. I believe you have received the Holy Spirit but there seems to be a difference in receiving the Holy Spirit and receiving the Holy Spirit described in the book of Acts. Just because you have received the Holy Spirit does not mean that you have received the Holy Spirit of Acts. Also, just because you haven't spoken in tongues does not necessarily imply that you haven't received the Holy Spirit described in the book of Acts.

There is something I thought of that I think would be beneficial for you to study. In Acts 2, Peter cited a prophecy from Joel in order to explain them being filled with the Holy Ghost. Try to study about how the filling of the Holy Ghost in Acts 2 could fulfill that prophecy.

I believe that Jesus was a real man that lived and died about 2000 years ago. That much is surely real. The story part I was speaking of regarding him is in the details. Details such as God sending him, the virgin birth, the miracles, him being our sacrifice, the resurrection...

[easter]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I'm not sure why you cited the scripture about the World not being able to know the things of God?

As far as what I bolded. I believe you have received the Holy Spirit but there seems to be a difference in receiving the Holy Spirit and receiving the Holy Spirit described in the book of Acts. Just because you have received the Holy Spirit does not mean that you have received the Holy Spirit of Acts. Also, just because you haven't spoken in tongues does not necessarily imply that you haven't received the Holy Spirit described in the book of Acts.

There is something I thought of that I think would be beneficial for you to study. In Acts 2, Peter cited a prophecy from Joel in order to explain them being filled with the Holy Ghost. Try to study about how the filling of the Holy Ghost in Acts 2 could fulfill that prophecy.

I believe that Jesus was a real man that lived and died about 2000 years ago. That much is surely real. The story part I was speaking of regarding him is in the details. Details such as God sending him, the virgin birth, the miracles, him being our sacrifice, the resurrection...

We believe the same way!I too believe the sealing of the Holy Spirit is separate from the baptism of the Holy Spirit.Not sure how it's a separate event but I know the apostles believed on Christ first.Then they were filled by the Holy Spirit spoken of in Acts much later after believing.
I mentioned the scripture about how the world don't understand the things of God because God is Spirit because I believe by this verse we can understand that the Holy Spirit must draw a man to Christ,convicts him of his sin,brings him to repentance or else the man would not come to God.That's why I posted that scripture.
I think the sealing of the Holy Spirit is different then the empowerment from on high and that is why I believe some receive the gifts of the Spirit and some don't understand that there is a difference.This would explain why so many genuine Christians don't believe the gifts are for today.
jfrog it's a shame your not a Christian.You'd make a good one!
I use to struggle with the ideal of "what if Jesus was not really who He was and one night something came to mind,something I had read a hundred times,something I had seen in every passion play.
Remember that Peter walked here on this earth with Jesus and witnessed first hand the miracles of Jesus and even proclaimed to Jesus that Jesus was the Son of God.Yet when the soldiers came and arrested Jesus, Peter's faith failed him and Jesus told him it would.After Peter denied Jesus three times you mind as well say He had no faith in believing that Jesus was the Son of God or else he would not have denied knowing Jesus to man?
What changed that?To the point that Peter preached the gospel and ended up in prison and finally Peter was crucified upside down for the Gospel of Jesus.What changed Peter from the coward he was when he denied Jesus those three times into someone who was willing to die for the gospel of Jesus?It's simple Peter seen Jesus after He rose from the dead.Peter knew the truth and he died spreading that truth to the world.Peter was not a brave man before Jesus's death on the cross yet something changed Peter and that something was the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
After I thought about this awhile I could not believe that I had never seen it this way and I had no logical answer but that what the four gospel teach us is truth because why would anyone die for lie?