BY THIS STANDARD-Greg L. Bahnsen

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

If you had Jesus as a pastor, David as worship leader, and Paul taking up the offering. You still would place them on the pay no mind list. Face it, you couldn't give a care about submission to God's rules and regulations. You like being the interpreter of what you deem to be godly and correct. You make it up as you go along, and Jesus has to submit to you, not the other way around.

Self government under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That's the Kingdom, predicated upon the individual's relationship with Christ. No need to force our way of life on others. They choose if they desire to bow to human government, or self govern under Christ. We self govern under Christ. No earthly king or government. We govern our own lives, based on the Gospel. When earthly government clashes with our way, we resist peacefully. They can jail us, beat us, or even kill us. That's the cost.

When I say "earthly government", that includes so called "theonomic" models. Any government where men seek power over men.

The only true "theonomy" is one with the individual being ruled by the Holy Spirit Himself... in the midst of this earthly mess filled with governments designed to rule through coercion and force.

Christ will put these earthly governments down upon His return, and rule those glorified souls who submitted to His rule in this age.

[Aquila]

The desire to rule others is the mother of all tyranny.

[Aquila]

The Christian anarchy is the individual submitting to the rulership of Christ alone. We obey earthly government to keep peace while among them. BUT in areas we deem are under God's authority, we must obey God, and not men, being willing to face whatever repercussions that might bring. We call others to come under the same rulership of Christ, and live above the authorities of this world, even "theonomic" authorities of this world, like the one advocated by Esaias in this thread. The born again Christian has the Holy Spirit to guide them directly. We don't need Esaias, Rushdoony, or any other fallen human being ruling over us as God's representative. God Himself is in us.

If Rushdoony, and these other theonomists, had the Holy Spirit, they'd need not rely on human coercion through religious government, or political agenda.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Self government under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That's the Kingdom, predicated upon the individual's relationship with Christ. No need to force our way of life on others. They choose if they desire to bow to human government, or self govern under Christ. We self govern under Christ. No earthly king or government. We govern our own lives, based on the Gospel. When earthly government clashes with our way, we resist peacefully. They can jail us, beat us, or even kill us. That's the cost.

When I say "earthly government", that includes so called "theonomic" models. Any government where men seek power over men.

The only true "theonomy" is one with the individual being ruled by the Holy Spirit Himself... in the midst of this earthly mess filled with governments designed to rule through coercion and force.

Christ will put these earthly governments down upon His return, and rule those glorified souls who submitted to His rule in this age.

Chris, what you are describing is earthly worldly governments. Christianity is the force that gave us civilization. Without Christianity we would all be living in mudhuts.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The Christian anarchy is the individual submitting to the rulership of Christ alone.

How's that working out for you? You couldn't hack it when you were with the plural eldership house group. How do you think you would sail with a communal anarchist group? Which is an oxymoron. There is no such thing as anarchist fellowship, because every man is right in his own view. This is where you really shine, because you have no apostolic church government. No apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. Just you and what ever you want at the moment. Here is where your baloney is turned on its head. You claim that divorce disqualifies eldership? So, in this Christian anarchism where you only submit to "Christ" how aren't you disqualified to lead anyone? I mean how is anyone disqualified to lead if anarchists have no leadership other than an invisible deity? Which you would be the only mouth piece to anyone who had the misfortune of being linked to you as a family unit?

Originally Posted by Aquila

We obey earthly government to keep peace while among them. BUT in areas we deem are under God's authority, we must obey God, and not men, being willing to face whatever repercussions that might bring. We call others to come under the same rulership of Christ, and live above the authorities of this world, even "theonomic" authorities of this world, like the one advocated by Esaias in this thread. The born again Christian has the Holy Spirit to guide them directly. We don't need Esaias, Rushdoony, or any other fallen human being ruling over us as God's representative. God Himself is in us.

If Rushdoony, and these other theonomists, had the Holy Spirit, they'd need not rely on human coercion through religious government, or political agenda.

This is the real reason you can't be in a church, because you won't be under anyone. This appeals to you because like I said if Jesus was your pastor, King David played his harp, and Paul took up the offering, you still wouldn't listen. Having an invisible god appeals to you, because that bolt of lighting never hit. So therefore because you constantly dodge the ecclesiastical silver bullet time and time again, you continue to get worse. Ecclesiastes 8:11

Guys like you are a laugh, when you allow us to see your magical thinking, and walk around with a bowl of corn flakes in the emperor's new clothes.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Chris, what you are describing is earthly worldly governments. Christianity is the force that gave us civilization. Without Christianity we would all be living in mudhuts.

Yes, Christianity is the "force" behind many advancements in this world. I agree. But, it is also a spiritual kingdom transcendent of all earthly government.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes, Christianity is the "force" behind many advancements in this world. I agree. But, it is also a spiritual kingdom transcendent of all earthly government.

So, you don't believe that Christianity is a spiritual kingdom?

Do you speak in tongues?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

How's that working out for you? You couldn't hack it when you were with the plural eldership house group. How do you think you would sail with a communal anarchist group? Which is an oxymoron. There is no such thing as anarchist fellowship, because every man is right in his own view. This is where you really shine, because you have no apostolic church government. No apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. Just you and what ever you want at the moment. Here is where your baloney is turned on its head. You claim that divorce disqualifies eldership? So, in this Christian anarchism where you only submit to "Christ" how aren't you disqualified to lead anyone? I mean how is anyone disqualified to lead if anarchists have no leadership other than an invisible deity? Which you would be the only mouth piece to anyone who had the misfortune of being linked to you as a family unit?



This is the real reason you can't be in a church, because you won't be under anyone. This appeals to you because like I said if Jesus was your pastor, King David played his harp, and Paul took up the offering, you still wouldn't listen. Having an invisible god appeals to you, because that bolt of lighting never hit. So therefore because you constantly dodge the ecclesiastical silver bullet time and time again, you continue to get worse. Ecclesiastes 8:11

Guys like you are a laugh, when you allow us to see your magical thinking, and walk around with a bowl of corn flakes in the emperor's new clothes.

Thanks for the personal insults.

An anarchist fellowship is best reflected in the early Quaker fellowships and even many house churches. Everyone is at a different place in their walk and understanding. They allow conversation, exchange, growth, different understandings. No one is like you, demanding that they agree. You'd not hack it in an anarchist fellowship. Lol But that's okay too. That's just you. And the authentic you needs more structure. I left the last house church because they were becoming hostile to Apostolic truth. Instead of being a problem, I left.

Christian anarchists are also "Christian". They believe in elders. But biblical elders do not see themselves as lords over the people. They are "elders". They serve as mentors, guides, not dictators. They're like grandfathers. Patriarchs of God's family. The association is also voluntary. Disagree with the teaching, or elder, freely leave. No harm to any. But "earthly government" rules by force and coercion. Don't pay taxes, they'll punch you in the face and put you in a cage. Collect rain water without a permit, they'll demand money. If you don't pay, you get punched and put in a cage. Choose to grow a leaf created by God, you get punched and put in a cage. Tell them you're a sovereign human, get punched and put in a cage. Coercion. Man ruling over man. Both corrupt and fallen. Even the theonomist. Disagree with dogma, you get punched in the face and put into a cage, or worse...burned to death.

Christian Reconstructionism is no different than any other earthly "archy" or "ocracy". Just earthly government in religious garb. We tolerate such governments because God allows them. They do tend to keep order, but it cannot be said that any of them are truly righteous. When their laws get in the way of our kingdom, we obey God, and accept the consequences.

I suggest reading Tolstoy's, The Kingdom of God Is Within You.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So, you don't believe that Christianity is a spiritual kingdom?

Do you speak in tongues?

Evidently you need to read what I wrote again.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Evidently you need to read what I wrote again.

Evidently you never answer simple questions.