Is there are open discussion area on the forum?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Antipas

I'm aware that NDE-like experiences can be induced by various means. However, they are not true NDEs. Drugs can induce religious-like visions too, but they are not true religious visions.

To relegate these spiritual phenomena to biochemical reaction is to build a rather strong case for atheism. After studying this, I had a period of entertaining scientific pantheism, an atheistic devotion to the innate sacredness of the natural universe. But still, I feel the draw of something spiritual.

I think that in some ways the spiritual and the natural intersect. But a drug induced, or artficially induced, NDE is quite different from what is experienced in clinical death. It doesn't bring the peace and life changing effect of the real experience.

You ever drop 500-plus micrograms of genuine LSD?

You might change your opinion if you had...

Or not. Just saying.

And of course there's a difference between ingesting DMT in a nice, relaxed setting with friends for entertainment and explorative purposes... and having the adrenalin dump and other reactions to literal life-ending trauma. In fact, almost dying - without any NDE hallucinations at all - is usually, almost always, a life changing experience.

There is no perception possible for a human absent electrochemical activity in the brain.

The very fact alternate realities and ecstasies can be induced by physical, magnetic, electrical, and chemical stimulations of the brain prove that human perception and consciousness is physical.

Just another validation of the authenticity and superiority of the Bible over other traditions, in my opinion and experience.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

BTW, I grew up as a kid spending time with my dad at work who was an EEG technician at the Sleep Lab in a major hospital in Houston. He later went into EMG for Baylor, worked with Michael Debakey, pioneered certain EMG techniques, and whose living room was filled with Plato, Evans-Wentz, the Urantia Book, and many others, who learned yoga in India and Buddhism in Japan, who was experienced with LSD and DMT and etc back in 1960s era San Francisco, helped distribute LSD for professor Owsley (CIA researcher in California), and more.

That was my upbringing as a child.

I was practicing mediumship and geomancy, psychometry, Tarot, and Gardnerian magick, and inducing OBEs, back in middle school.

By high school I had graduated to Enochian high magick, Golden Dawn style qabala, entheogenic shamanism, and traditional Satanism aka a mix of mayomberia and tantric Shaivism, and some Chaos Magick before it was called that popularly.

Thank God He delivered me from all that nonsense. Now I'm a Bible thumping fundamentalist Pentecostal. And eternally grateful.

That's very interesting. I've never gone deep. Even religious fundamentalism is a condition that some say is related to brain chemistry.

What if "God" is a metaphor for the universe itself, and all our religious phenomena are as natural and scientifically explainable? Nothing would then be more sacred than consciousness itself. Having evolved from the natural universe, we'd essentially be the universe experiencing itself.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You ever drop 500-plus micrograms of genuine LSD?

You might change your opinion if you had...

Or not. Just saying.

And of course there's a difference between ingesting DMT in a nice, relaxed setting with friends for entertainment and explorative purposes... and having the adrenalin dump and other reactions to literal life-ending trauma. In fact, almost dying - without any NDE hallucinations at all - is usually, almost always, a life changing experience.

There is no perception possible for a human absent electrochemical activity in the brain.

The very fact alternate realities and ecstasies can be induced by physical, magnetic, electrical, and chemical stimulations of the brain prove that human perception and consciousness is physical.

Just another validation of the authenticity and superiority of the Bible over other traditions, in my opinion and experience.

I'd be willing to try it. Lol

For all we know, the writers of the Bible were experiencing the very same expendable phenomena.

[Antipas]

Or perhaps when triggering these things, we're just tampering with God's communication system.

[Antipas]

Scientific Pantheism would embrace the scientific explanation of all these things, yet also embrace the sacredness of it all.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Antipas

That's very interesting. I've never gone deep. Even religious fundamentalism is a condition that some say is related to brain chemistry.

There's also a genetic component as well.

What if "God" is a metaphor for the universe itself, and all our religious phenomena are as natural and scientifically explainable? Nothing would then be more sacred than consciousness itself. Having evolved from the natural universe, we'd essentially be the universe experiencing itself.

That's old hat. Standard Brahmanism, tat-sat yoga, atman-awareness, yada yada yada. Results? India minus British influences, ie people starving in the streets as cows walk by, zero technological progress, etc.

Indra in his youth was far more stimulating for social progress than Krishna ever dreamed himself to be.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Antipas

I'd be willing to try it. Lol

For all we know, the writers of the Bible were experiencing the very same expendable phenomena.

Not sure what you mean by this last statement?

The writers of the Bible were guided by Divine Knowledge, much of it passed down from Adam, Noah, Abraham, etc, much of it revealed to the prophets whose brains were stimulated by God to understand certain things, and who occasionally met non human intelligent beings (angels, aliens, whatever you want to call them) who brought them information from Universal Headquarters.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

There's also a genetic component as well.



That's old hat. Standard Brahmanism, tat-sat yoga, atman-awareness, yada yada yada. Results? India minus British influences, ie people starving in the streets as cows walk by, zero technological progress, etc.

Indra in his youth was far more stimulating for social progress than Krishna ever dreamed himself to be.

No. Here's a site about what I'm referring to.

http://www.pantheism.net/paul/

[Esaias]

BTW, in a previous post, I was NOT advocating using LSD, lol.

In fact, legal and moral questions aside, unless you work for the government or a sponsored research lab, the chances of that "acid" some dude at the club offers to sell you turning out to be n-DOME or an amphetamine-based poison are VERY high. And people die from that stuff, literally.

And don't come back to talk about it, either. The days of "dropping acid and exploring the inner universe" are pretty much long gone.

[Birddog]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Now we are in the realm of sacred myth. I do not believe that the story of Adam and Eve is literal history. I believe it is a spiritual myth that describes man and man’s relationship with God. Adam and Eve represent us all. We’ve all experienced spiritual innocence and chosen to “sin”, or respond to ego over spirit, seeking knowledge and selfish gain through desire. Therefore, in Adam, we all die. Because Adam represents us all.

I believe that the separation from God that we experience is an illusion caused by sin. Sin, ego, desire, self…. these have alienated us from experiencing the divine reality in that we become riddled with guilt and regret, filling us with the notion that we are unworthy. The separation is in our minds. God continues to be ever present and filling all things. On account of sin (whatever a religion might call it) we cannot perceive the divine reality. It is like we have closed our eyes to the divine truth of God’s existence, goodness, love, and mercy. Once we get beyond sin, ego, desire, self we can begin to once more enjoy the oneness with God that was intended from eternity. The story of Jesus reveals God's self-sacrificing love and the call for us to embrace love over law. That is the primary contribution of the Christian faith for all mankind. Every faith has a focus that contributes to man as a whole. Christianity's contribution is self-sacrificing love. Judaism contributes law & justice and how God desires this among nations. Buddhism is wisdom and the truth that reincarnation is not the rule. Hinduism is karma, reminds of diversity within the single divine essence, and speaks of reincarnation. Islam contributes monotheism. Nature religion contributes oneness with the earth and respect for nature, the very world from which we were created. Etc., etc.

I'm not sure if that answered your question or not.

Dear friend, you do realize that if you are right then no harm is done but if you are wrong you lose your soul?

Just curious.