Did the early church only worship in houses?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

Brother I have been up all night and about to retire.It will have to wait for tommorrow.Thanks.Possibly Brother Blume will have some.I do.I have studied this
out alot.

I look forward to viewing the information you post from your indepth studies on this subject.

I will recall my 3 questions here for ease of access when you return.

1. Do you have any historical references to share?
2. What is it about the body of scriptural evidence that I put forth for you that leaves you not so convinced?
3. Other than an evangelistic capacity... what reason would they have for going to the synagogue?

[Digging4Truth]

[Trouvere]

Hey I didn't forget.I work nights so I am not able to post anything really
big yet.I need to sleep first.

[Trouvere]

Hi Digging4Truth,
Here is one article on the early church.If we start at base and share and study some things together it may lend to some serious bible discussion.


Origin
Part of the series on
Jewish Christians


Figures
Jesus
John the Baptist
Simon Peter
Pillars of the Church
Twelve Apostles
James the Just
Simeon of Jerusalem
Jude
Paul of Tarsus
Desposyni
Patriarchs of Jerusalem
Symmachus the Ebionite


Ancient sects
Cerinthians
Ebionites
Elcesaites
Nasoraeans
Nazarenes
Nazoraeans


Modern sects
Ebionite Jewish Community
Messianic Jews


Adversity
Antinomianism
Christian anti-semitism
Bar Kokhba Revolt
Aelia Capitolina
Emperor Constantine


Writings
Clementine literature
Didache
Gospel of Matthew
Epistle of James
Gospel of the Ebionites
Gospel of the Hebrews
Gospel of the Nazoraeans
Liturgy of St James


Issues
Aramaic of Jesus
Aramaic name of Jesus
Background of Jesus
Christian Torah-submission
Council of Jerusalem
Early Christianity
Expounding of the Law
Sabbath
Quartodecimanism
Sermon on the Mount
Seven Laws of Noah


Pejoratives
Judaizers
Legalists


This box: view • talk • edit
Early Christianity began as a Jewish sect of the followers of Jesus during the late Second Temple period of the 1st century.[1] There were several other Jewish sects in and around what is now the modern state of Israel (then it was the Roman Iudaea Province) during the same time period. These sects included the Sadducees,[2] the Essenes and the Pharisees, and a group recognized as Zealots.[3] Christians are distinguished from these other groups by their belief that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah. The word "Messiah" comes from Aramaic and Hebrew word משיח (alternative spelling משיחא), which literally means the "anointed [one]". In Jewish tradition, this term refers to a future Jewish king from the Davidic line who will be anointed with holy anointing oil and inducted to rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age. In Greek, this figure was referred to as Χριστός (Christós).[4] The English word "Christ" comes from this Greek word. It was this belief in Jesus as the Christ or Messiah that later led to to this sect, and later non-Jewish converts, being called "Christians." The name "Christian" was first used by people in Antioch to refer to this group as the early 40s of the first century (before Paul's first missionary journey).[5] The usage of the Greek word Χριστός (Christós) by people of Antioch followed what the Acts of the Apostles describes as another "first" for Antioch: Jesus preaching to "Greek-speakers" (Ἑλληνιστάς) or "Greeks" (Ἕλληνας) in Antioch, as opposed to "Jews" (Ἰουδαίοις),[6]. It is argued by some, such as Burton Mack that the Acts of the Apostles was only written in the early second century. Based on this argument, the conjecture that Jesus preached to Greek speakers in Antioch may reflect the position taken by the Gentilic followers of Jesus, rather than the Jewish Christians such as the Nazarenes and Ebionites. Previous to the account in Acts of the Apostles, the household of the Roman Centurion Cornelius is the only group of Gentiles mentioned[7] as accepted among the believers in Jesus and his resurrection. Furthermore, previous to this account in Acts there was no general preaching of Christ to Gentiles.[8] Note that here gentile is specifically defined as: distinct from Jews and Samaritans and the "Ethiopian eunuch" of 8:27. Acceptance of these gentiles into the Christian community did not mean that the Jews in the community ceased to view themselves as Jews: the alleged Council of Jamnia that is supposed to have formally expelled "Nazarenes" from the synagogues of Rabbinic Judaism came some thirty years later. See Jewish Christians.

Though Jesus had been crucified, Christians believed that "God raised him from the dead",[9] that he "had risen",[10] and that he ascended to heaven, to the "right hand of God",[11] and would return again[12] to fulfil the rest of Messianic prophecy such as the Resurrection of the dead, the Last Judgment and establishment of the Kingdom of God (also see Messianism and Messianic Age). Their belief quickly spread to non-Jews, whom the Jews called Gentiles. This spread was seen as fulfilment of Bible prophecy such as Isaiah 42:1-4 (Matthew 12:18-21), Isaiah 42:6 (Luke 2:32), Isaiah 49:6 (Acts 13:47), Amos 9:11-12 (Acts 15:16-17), Isaiah 56:7 (Mark 11:17), Isaiah 60:3 (John 8:12, Rev 21:24). See also proselyte and Judaism and Christianity.

Among the earliest Christians, the apostles had an acknowledged leadership role, as shown, for instance, in the following episodes recounted in the Acts of the Apostles: it was in their teaching that the first Christians "continued steadfastly" (Acts 2:42); they sent envoys to enquirer (see Seventy Disciples) into novelties that arose (Acts 8:14); appeal was made to them, along with the elders, to settle a dispute about the obligations of Christians (Acts 15:2). Some of Jesus' relatives were also prominent early Christians, his mother being a notable follower, and two of his four named brothers from the New Testament: James the Just and Jude; and Simeon of Jerusalem were noted as leaders. Some identify James the Just with the apostle James, son of Alphaeus and James the Less and Jude with the apostle Saint Jude and Simeon of Jerusalem with the apostle Simon the Zealot[13] yet the New Testament also records conflict between Jesus and his family, such as Mark 3:21, see also Rejection of Jesus and Mark 3. Some see a negative view of Jesus' family as related to a conflict between Paul of Tarsus and Jewish Christians.[14]

Later writings, such as the Gospel of Mary Magdalene (which survives in two third-century Greek fragments and a longer fifth-century translation into Coptic), mention certain individuals who are also mentioned in canonical gospels. These individuals, who include Mary Magdalene, Salome (disciple) [11], Lazarus of Bethany and his sisters Martha and Mary, and Nicodemus, are mentioned as being prominent among early Christians and associated with Jesus during his lifetime. Some of these documents present the figures in question as being among the leadership of the apostles. See, for example Sophia of Jesus Christ

It is difficult to cite any individual event as triggering a schism between Judaism and Christianity, and establishing Christianity as a religion in its own right, as opposed to a Jewish sect, however there are several noteworthy events. One is the previously mentioned alleged Council of Jamnia. Another is the perception immediately preceding the Bar Kokhba's revolt in 132, that Simon bar Kokhba was the true Jewish Messiah. A third is the confusion about the requirement for Christians to follow the laws of the Hebrew Bible, most notably circumcision, ultimately leading to Council of Jerusalem in the mid first century. A fourth is the writing and publication of the New Testament, starting in the decade following Jesus's death until around 140. Adherence of early Christians to some Jewish laws and customs continued for several centuries. Many issues concerning abolishing, modifying, or replacing certain Jewish laws and customs were not settled until some 300 years after Jesus's death. The First Council of Nicaea (325) described Jesus as "God from God" recognizing his divinity, and strengthening the doctrine of the trinity.[citation needed] This conflicted with the traditional Jewish understanding of the oneness of God (see Shema). Later the Council of Laodicea (363) outlawed the observance of traditional Sabbath on Saturday. By the end of the early Christianity period in the fourth century, Christianity had evolved to a separate and distinct religion from Judaism.

It is good to be a part of this forum. This is my first post and i stay pretty busy so i probably won't be posting a whole lot. I want to reply to this post because it seems to me that in the first post Trouvere was refferring to people having church in just their home and not a "church building". SOmehow it got changed into "having church" or "congregating" in the synagogues. First, considering the persecution of the early church i doubt that they were able to meet for a "service" in the synagogue. With that said i believe that for the most part the early early church did meet in houses. But as CHristianity began to flourish it expanded into other areas where the persection was not so serious and they began to congregate in "buildings". Although some still gathered in houses, i think it is wrong to imply that they only gathered in houses.

1 Cor 11:18-22

18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church , I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

The verses that are in bold have pretty strong implications that they did meet in building other than peoples houses.
The fact that Paul said don't you have houses to eat and drink in seems to imply to me that they were not meeting in someones home.

[Trouvere]

Hi Digging4Truth,
Here is one article on the early church.If we start at base and share and study some things together it may lend to some serious bible discussion.



Early Christianity began as a Jewish sect of the followers of Jesus during the late Second Temple period of the 1st century.[1] There were several other Jewish sects in and around what is now the modern state of Israel (then it was the Roman Iudaea Province) during the same time period. These sects included the Sadducees,[2] the Essenes and the Pharisees, and a group recognized as Zealots.[3] Christians are distinguished from these other groups by their belief that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah. The word "Messiah" comes from Aramaic and Hebrew word משיח (alternative spelling משיחא), which literally means the "anointed [one]". In Jewish tradition, this term refers to a future Jewish king from the Davidic line who will be anointed with holy anointing oil and inducted to rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age. In Greek, this figure was referred to as Χριστός (Christós).[4] The English word "Christ" comes from this Greek word. It was this belief in Jesus as the Christ or Messiah that later led to to this sect, and later non-Jewish converts, being called "Christians." The name "Christian" was first used by people in Antioch to refer to this group as the early 40s of the first century (before Paul's first missionary journey).[5] The usage of the Greek word Χριστός (Christós) by people of Antioch followed what the Acts of the Apostles describes as another "first" for Antioch: Jesus preaching to "Greek-speakers" (Ἑλληνιστάς) or "Greeks" (Ἕλληνας) in Antioch, as opposed to "Jews" (Ἰουδαίοις),[6]. It is argued by some, such as Burton Mack that the Acts of the Apostles was only written in the early second century. Based on this argument, the conjecture that Jesus preached to Greek speakers in Antioch may reflect the position taken by the Gentilic followers of Jesus, rather than the Jewish Christians such as the Nazarenes and Ebionites. Previous to the account in Acts of the Apostles, the household of the Roman Centurion Cornelius is the only group of Gentiles mentioned[7] as accepted among the believers in Jesus and his resurrection. Furthermore, previous to this account in Acts there was no general preaching of Christ to Gentiles.[8] Note that here gentile is specifically defined as: distinct from Jews and Samaritans and the "Ethiopian eunuch" of 8:27. Acceptance of these gentiles into the Christian community did not mean that the Jews in the community ceased to view themselves as Jews: the alleged Council of Jamnia that is supposed to have formally expelled "Nazarenes" from the synagogues of Rabbinic Judaism came some thirty years later. See Jewish Christians.

Though Jesus had been crucified, Christians believed that "God raised him from the dead",[9] that he "had risen",[10] and that he ascended to heaven, to the "right hand of God",[11] and would return again[12] to fulfil the rest of Messianic prophecy such as the Resurrection of the dead, the Last Judgment and establishment of the Kingdom of God (also see Messianism and Messianic Age). Their belief quickly spread to non-Jews, whom the Jews called Gentiles. This spread was seen as fulfilment of Bible prophecy such as Isaiah 42:1-4 (Matthew 12:18-21), Isaiah 42:6 (Luke 2:32), Isaiah 49:6 (Acts 13:47), Amos 9:11-12 (Acts 15:16-17), Isaiah 56:7 (Mark 11:17), Isaiah 60:3 (John 8:12, Rev 21:24). See also proselyte and Judaism and Christianity.

Among the earliest Christians, the apostles had an acknowledged leadership role, as shown, for instance, in the following episodes recounted in the Acts of the Apostles: it was in their teaching that the first Christians "continued steadfastly" (Acts 2:42); they sent envoys to enquirer (see Seventy Disciples) into novelties that arose (Acts 8:14); appeal was made to them, along with the elders, to settle a dispute about the obligations of Christians (Acts 15:2). Some of Jesus' relatives were also prominent early Christians, his mother being a notable follower, and two of his four named brothers from the New Testament: James the Just and Jude; and Simeon of Jerusalem were noted as leaders. Some identify James the Just with the apostle James, son of Alphaeus and James the Less and Jude with the apostle Saint Jude and Simeon of Jerusalem with the apostle Simon the Zealot[13] yet the New Testament also records conflict between Jesus and his family, such as Mark 3:21, see also Rejection of Jesus and Mark 3. Some see a negative view of Jesus' family as related to a conflict between Paul of Tarsus and Jewish Christians.[14]

Later writings, such as the Gospel of Mary Magdalene (which survives in two third-century Greek fragments and a longer fifth-century translation into Coptic), mention certain individuals who are also mentioned in canonical gospels. These individuals, who include Mary Magdalene, Salome (disciple) [11], Lazarus of Bethany and his sisters Martha and Mary, and Nicodemus, are mentioned as being prominent among early Christians and associated with Jesus during his lifetime. Some of these documents present the figures in question as being among the leadership of the apostles. See, for example Sophia of Jesus Christ

It is difficult to cite any individual event as triggering a schism between Judaism and Christianity, and establishing Christianity as a religion in its own right, as opposed to a Jewish sect, however there are several noteworthy events. One is the previously mentioned alleged Council of Jamnia. Another is the perception immediately preceding the Bar Kokhba's revolt in 132, that Simon bar Kokhba was the true Jewish Messiah. A third is the confusion about the requirement for Christians to follow the laws of the Hebrew Bible, most notably circumcision, ultimately leading to Council of Jerusalem in the mid first century. A fourth is the writing and publication of the New Testament, starting in the decade following Jesus's death until around 140. Adherence of early Christians to some Jewish laws and customs continued for several centuries. Many issues concerning abolishing, modifying, or replacing certain Jewish laws and customs were not settled until some 300 years after Jesus's death. The First Council of Nicaea (325) described Jesus as "God from God" recognizing his divinity, and strengthening the doctrine of the trinity.[citation needed] This conflicted with the traditional Jewish understanding of the oneness of God (see Shema). Later the Council of Laodicea (363) outlawed the observance of traditional Sabbath on Saturday. By the end of the early Christianity period in the fourth century, Christianity had evolved to a separate and distinct religion from Judaism,

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by StillOnFire

It is good to be a part of this forum. This is my first post and i stay pretty busy so i probably won't be posting a whole lot. I want to reply to this post because it seems to me that in the first post Trouvere was refferring to people having church in just their home and not a "church building". SOmehow it got changed into "having church" or "congregating" in the synagogues. First, considering the persecution of the early church i doubt that they were able to meet for a "service" in the synagogue. With that said i believe that for the most part the early early church did meet in houses. But as CHristianity began to flourish it expanded into other areas where the persection was not so serious and they began to congregate in "buildings". Although some still gathered in houses, i think it is wrong to imply that they only gathered in houses.

1 Cor 11:18-22

18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church , I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

The verses that are in bold have pretty strong implications that they did meet in building other than peoples houses.
The fact that Paul said don't you have houses to eat and drink in seems to imply to me that they were not meeting in someones home.

Still on fire I was not referring to anyone who has house church.I was referring to the early church and yes history says that for serveral years they did attend the temples but remember that when the gentiles came into the church they did not have temples to attend.Just some food for thought.
Paul was actually gotten onto because he brought a Greek into the temple.

[Digging4Truth]

Trouvere...

I have read the articles you cite and must have missed the portion that spoke of the early church meeting together in synagogues.

Could you pull these comments out in quotes because I don't see them yet.

Thanks.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by StillOnFire

It is good to be a part of this forum. This is my first post and i stay pretty busy so i probably won't be posting a whole lot. I want to reply to this post because it seems to me that in the first post Trouvere was refferring to people having church in just their home and not a "church building". SOmehow it got changed into "having church" or "congregating" in the synagogues. First, considering the persecution of the early church i doubt that they were able to meet for a "service" in the synagogue. With that said i believe that for the most part the early early church did meet in houses. But as CHristianity began to flourish it expanded into other areas where the persection was not so serious and they began to congregate in "buildings". Although some still gathered in houses, i think it is wrong to imply that they only gathered in houses.

1 Cor 11:18-22

18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church , I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

The verses that are in bold have pretty strong implications that they did meet in building other than peoples houses.
The fact that Paul said don't you have houses to eat and drink in seems to imply to me that they were not meeting in someones home.

You are trying to read 20th century thinking into 1st century writings.

When we say "in the church" we tend to (unfortunately) mean in a building.

The term ekklesia means...

d) in a Christian sense
1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
2) a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order's sake
3) those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
4) the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
5) the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven

This is the same term used in such scripture as "added to the church daily" yet no one is of any belief that this scripture is saying that they were doing construction daily.

This is the same term that say that there was "Great persecution against the church" yet no one is of any belief that this scripture is saying that people were persecuting a building.

The scripture is saying... when you meet together in your assemblies and does not, in any way, require that they were meeting in a public building.

Now... I do believe that from time to time the various assemblages that were getting together in homes probably did meet together for a celebration type thing and this would have taken place in a public venue. Wolfgang Simson speaks a little on this subject in his book "Houses That Change The World".

As to your other bolded portions they are inconsequential as well.

"Into one place"... well... whether they met in houses, open fields or synagogues they would still be coming "into one place". That doesn't require a synagogue.

"have ye not houses to eat and to drink in"... they were being instructed here to not come to the meeting ready to take part in some big feed but... again... whether they were meeting in houses, open fields or synagogues they all would have each left their own house to get there.

If you will read down a little further in the chapter you will find that the problem being addressed here is that when they gathered together it was their custom to partake of the lords supper (Bread & Wine). It is pointed out here that when the Lords Supper was instituted by Jesus it was a serving of others. Jesus took the bread and brake it and gave it to others. What it had become in Corinth was a gathering where people came together and fixed them a plate.

He was informing them that this wasn't what the Lords Supper was intended to be and that they shouldn't come to a meeting hungry and ready to make a big plate and drink a bunch of wine but, instead, they should come together (having eaten in their own homes) and observe the Lords Supper as it had been intended.

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Trouvere...

I have read the articles you cite and must have missed the portion that spoke of the early church meeting together in synagogues.

Could you pull these comments out in quotes because I don't see them yet.

Thanks.

History says the early church did still go to temple.I only posted a bit of information.I was trying for less than pages and pages of church history.