Time For Churches To Pay Taxes?

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Fionn mac Cumh

Really? You cant speak your mind if you have 501C status? I would sue anyone that tried to enforce that unconstitutional law.

Plenty of churches have been threaten with losing their 501C if they speak about politics. (Caesar)

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

If pastor's homes alone were allowed property taxes, this would bring in a huge tax revenue. I can understand church property being a tax write off, but not pastor's homes. The work of a pastor provides them with an income, of which they should pay taxes on, just like everyone else.

I could understand deductions for church utility bills etc., but there should be a limit on exactly what is tax-free. For example, I know pastors who use the church credit card to buy all their gas, groceries, and living expenses with - tax free. This is outrageous, in my opinion.

No wonder many "aspire" to the ministry - the income benefits and tax write offs are the best in the country really (maybe even better than those of the President of the USA, lol).

Uh, you must be looking at the minority of pastors that become wealthy gaming the system. Most of us serve for decades and aren't rolling in the deep. 28 years of ministry and you would laugh at my savings account and retirement savings. I'm currently bivocational because I've got to make se decent money as I approach the final two decades of my working life.

Pastors pay self employment taxes on their parsonages so tax revenue does come into the government coffers from a pastor's housing.

The problem with government is not that it isn't getting it's fair share of revenue. Government is out of control w taxation and wastes far too much and doesn't love within it's means. What is sad is that there are Americans like yourself that think that the government needs to find new sources of taxes rather than looking to trim the fat.

It's time the government stops running up huge deficits and causing our debt to grow beyond comprehension.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

If pastor's homes alone were allowed property taxes, this would bring in a huge tax revenue. I can understand church property being a tax write off, but not pastor's homes. The work of a pastor provides them with an income, of which they should pay taxes on, just like everyone else.

I could understand deductions for church utility bills etc., but there should be a limit on exactly what is tax-free. For example, I know pastors who use the church credit card to buy all their gas, groceries, and living expenses with - tax free. This is outrageous, in my opinion.

No wonder many "aspire" to the ministry - the income benefits and tax write offs are the best in the country really (maybe even better than those of the President of the USA, lol).

Pastors pay property tax if they buy a home.

The TRICK is when rich churches and pastors get the CHURCH to buy the home

Pastors pay taxes

" If you are a minister performing ministerial services, all of your earnings, including wages, offerings and fees you receive for performing marriages, baptisms, funerals, etc., are subject to income tax, whether you earn the amount as an employee or self-employed person. However, how you treat expenses related to those earnings differs if you earn the income as an employee or as a self-employed person. "|

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc417.html

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

It is illegal/unconstitutional to tax a church...UNLESS said church voluntarily submits to put itself under the
direct authority of the government through the 501(c)3 (NON-PROFIT) status.
Tax laws were not written to exempt churches; the Constitution has already exempted them!
The 501(c)3 is a trap that most churches have fallen into.

501c are TAX EXEMPT

http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-P...-Organizations

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

501c are TAX EXEMPT

http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-P...-Organizations

What strings are attached?

It is my understanding that the freedom of speech is sacrificed, leaving the church on shaky ground when speaking about politics. And for what? To save money?

Oh, well. Each church body should decide what is best for them.

In the house churches I know, no gathering is licensed. The network isn't licensed. The elders aren't licensed. In fact, "government licensing" as it relates to house churches, elders, and/or our private associations isn't seen as something that is absolutely necessary. This is the Kingdom of God.

I believe that in this... we could learn a lot from the early Quakers.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by obriencp

interesting question. I don't believe churches should pay taxes, but i believe part of the reason our taxes are so high is because churches aren't doing enough to help the community. If the churches really took care of the widows and orphans, and taught people how to work and have personal responsibility, there would be less people on welfare type programs.

Many churches cannot do what they're supposed to because of this:



Someone else already pointed out that too much money coming into a church goes towards bills (and pay rolls).

If churches paid taxes, would we be able to keep gay marriage from becoming a reality?

I agree with this post. Before we had a government controlled welfare system people depended on one another. charitable giving was how the needs of the poor where met. If welfare was done on a more personal community level it would probably eliminate a lot of the users. Church's are sometime thought to be greedy when they don't give to every sad story but sometimes giving may not be the answer.

I have heard of people who sell there food stamp groceries at a discounted price in order to have cash to go buy pills. Then they turn around and seek help for food from local church's. Do you think that you should give to such behavior? I may be cruel, but if I suspect something like this I probably won't give (unless there are children in the picture and sad enough there usually is). Distributing to the needy was an issue in the book of acts and it will always be.

Allowing the government to start taxing the church eliminates funds that will go towards seeing souls saved. You may not agree, but finances are important to the spreading of the gospel. The government will probably just find another place to waste that extra revenue. I will submit to the laws of are nation as long as they don't compromise what is pleasing to God.

[good samaritan]

Many here probably don't really care for traditional church buildings. In our society the structure of the building many time does attract people. The church were I pastor is a small building and I have noticed a negative response from people when I describe our church to them. It is paid for so I thank God for the facilities, but church buildings do have curb appearance. I do believe that many are out of balance and get the carriage in front of the horse, but if a church grows to the place where they can upgrade without straining the congregation and neglecting the gospel then I proud of them to have a nice place of worship. (money well spent)

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Many here probably don't really care for traditional church buildings. In our society the structure of the building many time does attract people. The church were I pastor is a small building and I have noticed a negative response from people when I describe our church to them. It is paid for so I thank God for the facilities, but church buildings do have curb appearance. I do believe that many are out of balance and get the carriage in front of the horse, but if a church grows to the place where they can upgrade without straining the congregation and neglecting the gospel then I proud of them to have a nice place of worship. (money well spent)

I agree.

[ApostolicKitty]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Religious organizations are by nature (constitutionally) tax exempt. The problem is that churches fell in the Government's trap by volunteering to become 501(3)c: therefore making themselves federal stooges.

For example, a church can preach against "sin" or any candidate and not be held liable; however, ANY 501(c)3 is automatically muzzled, because they are liable to submit to the IRS and government interference.

"But Brother, what about the First Amendment?" You folks lost it when you volunteered to be stooges.

Bngo!

By choosing to become a 501(c)3, you become a corporation that agrees to follow the rules laid out by the IRS for such organizations. You are not really gaining benefits, but giving away the freedom to operate as you see fit. It is possible to unincorporate and be free of the government system.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Uh, you must be looking at the minority of pastors that become wealthy gaming the system. Most of us serve for decades and aren't rolling in the deep. 28 years of ministry and you would laugh at my savings account and retirement savings. I'm currently bivocational because I've got to make se decent money as I approach the final two decades of my working life.

Pastors pay self employment taxes on their parsonages so tax revenue does come into the government coffers from a pastor's housing.

The problem with government is not that it isn't getting it's fair share of revenue. Government is out of control w taxation and wastes far too much and doesn't love within it's means. What is sad is that there are Americans like yourself that think that the government needs to find new sources of taxes rather than looking to trim the fat.

It's time the government stops running up huge deficits and causing our debt to grow beyond comprehension.

I always try to be careful not to paint everyone into the same category, and I did say "many" in my post. I know that are plenty of pastors out there who go above and beyond in their ministry.

However, you have to admit that there are quite a few "perks" of being in the ministry, which include the incredible amount of write-offs available to churches, where pastors can, if they choose, run most of their expenses through the "church" and not have to pay tax on them.