The ever dividing church. If everyone believed every Christian has to agree on every doctrine, the church would be in such disarray and impotence...people would be focusing so much on how we disagree, dividing and reforming how can we evangelize the lost?
In fact that may be why OPs really have such little impact on this world
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I wasn't in church during this period of time. Well, being you can't count attending the Catholic Church as "in" church. LOL!
In light of what you stated earlier, "It was only when one was talking about the theological underpinnings that you find the difference", can you give an example of how they preached so close that you couldn't understand the difference without bringing in their individual views?
I've heard Bro. Epley say the same, no tellable difference. Being there is a difference now, I've always wanted to know exactly what each said or would say that sounded so close while holding two views?
Pressing, my view comes from conversations Ive had with some of those who were there. Ive named some of those names already.
The best example I can give you is my own mothers life. She was raised first in the DeQuincy church discussed here. Brother Bennett was according to the accounts given, PCI in doctrine. Mom moved as a teenager to DeRidder and went to the church that had been PCI in organization but was "PAJC" in doctrine.
She never knew the difference between the two and always thought you needed to have the HG and be baptized to be saved.
my grandmother (my mom's, mom) was a backslidden daughter of a pentecostal preacher lady who came back to God under the Manguns when GAM was in South Texas. GA was PAJC in doctrine. She moved to DeQincy La., lived next to the old staunch PAJC church but went to the PCI doctrine church until she moved to DeRidder.
If you can follow my back and forth timeline, you can see that my own family has been connected to both PAJC and PCI doctrine preachers without really knowing which was what?
There is a story from Papa George Glass who was certainly PAJC in doctrine, and PCI in affiliation that he was once cornered for being soft on doctrine. This because of his affiliation. He also pastored an old line PCI/PCI church in Tenn. (RENDA has some connection there). His reply was "brother I didnt know anyone would WANT to go to heaven without the Holy Ghost".
(I can litterly hear his voice in my head.... I certainly heard him say that many many times from the pulpit).
I think that incapsulates the attitude of most of those men who were working together but held various understandings of what salvation was.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Lets also piont to Oneness doctrine and baptism in Jesus Name.
we have to remember that all of these men both PCI and PAJC suffered for parting ways with the Trinitarians. they were either the men who were kicked out of the AOG or were the spiritual sons of those who were. They themselves paid a high price for the belief.
They preached Oneness. They preached baptism in Jesus Name. Did all of them believe you werent saved unless you were baptized? of course not. But they preached it fervently.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Pressing, my view comes from conversations Ive had with some of those who were there. Ive named some of those names already.
The best example I can give you is my own mothers life. She was raised first in the DeQuincy church discussed here. Brother Bennett was according to the accounts given, PCI in doctrine. Mom moved as a teenager to DeRidder and went to the church that had been PCI in organization but was "PAJC" in doctrine.
She never knew the difference between the two and always thought you needed to have the HG and be baptized to be saved.
my grandmother (my mom's, mom) was a backslidden daughter of a pentecostal preacher lady who came back to God under the Manguns when GAM was in South Texas. GA was PAJC in doctrine. She moved to DeQincy La., lived next to the old staunch PAJC church but went to the PCI doctrine church until she moved to DeRidder.
If you can follow my back and forth timeline, you can see that my own family has been connected to both PAJC and PCI doctrine preachers without really knowing which was what?
There is a story from Papa George Glass who was certainly PAJC in doctrine, and PCI in affiliation that he was once cornered for being soft on doctrine. This because of his affiliation. He also pastored an old line PCI/PCI church in Tenn. (RENDA has some connection there). His reply was "brother I didnt know anyone would WANT to go to heaven without the Holy Ghost".
(I can litterly hear his voice in my head.... I certainly heard him say that many many times from the pulpit).
I think that incapsulates the attitude of most of those men who were working together but held various understandings of what salvation was.
Thanks, Ferd. That explains things perfectly. I think. LOL! Is he saying he didn't think you could make it to heaven without the Holy Ghost and thought everyone believed that was well?
The AOG church I attend baptises in Jesus Name my wife about fell out of the pew when she heard the preacher say that, seeing how we came out of oneness Apostolic,and she thought they were the only ones to baptise in "Jesus name"...To me it does not matter what you say during Baptism, but it sure suprised her..
The ever dividing church. If everyone believed every Christian has to agree on every doctrine, the church would be in such disarray and impotence...people would be focusing so much on how we disagree, dividing and reforming how can we evangelize the lost?
In fact that may be why OPs really have such little impact on this world
Name one group in Christendom that has 'such MAJOR impact on the world' and I GUARANTEE you they have doctrines they will not compromise.
The modernist, liberalized, 'neo-evangelical' movement among Protestants doesn't count though since all they've done is make the standard of unity a simple confession that 'Jesus is Lord' thus swelling their ranks statistically.
The Reformers, Covenanters, and Lutherans were FAR more adamant about doctrinal unity and doctrinal purity than ANY OP group I've seen (except maybe for Reckhart's bunch) and I doubt anyone could claim they had 'such little impact on the world'.
Same with the Anabaptists. Same with the Waldensians.
Same with the catholics for that matter.
The problem is the UPC was born out of compromise, and that attitude of compromise - go along to get along, despite serious doctrinal differences - is what is causing 'lack of impact', imo.
Pressing, my view comes from conversations Ive had with some of those who were there. Ive named some of those names already.
The best example I can give you is my own mothers life. She was raised first in the DeQuincy church discussed here. Brother Bennett was according to the accounts given, PCI in doctrine. Mom moved as a teenager to DeRidder and went to the church that had been PCI in organization but was "PAJC" in doctrine.
She never knew the difference between the two and always thought you needed to have the HG and be baptized to be saved.
my grandmother (my mom's, mom) was a backslidden daughter of a pentecostal preacher lady who came back to God under the Manguns when GAM was in South Texas. GA was PAJC in doctrine. She moved to DeQincy La., lived next to the old staunch PAJC church but went to the PCI doctrine church until she moved to DeRidder.
If you can follow my back and forth timeline, you can see that my own family has been connected to both PAJC and PCI doctrine preachers without really knowing which was what?
There is a story from Papa George Glass who was certainly PAJC in doctrine, and PCI in affiliation that he was once cornered for being soft on doctrine. This because of his affiliation. He also pastored an old line PCI/PCI church in Tenn. (RENDA has some connection there). His reply was "brother I didnt know anyone would WANT to go to heaven without the Holy Ghost".
(I can litterly hear his voice in my head.... I certainly heard him say that many many times from the pulpit).
I think that incapsulates the attitude of most of those men who were working together but held various understandings of what salvation was.
Papa George was one of the kindest and most caring ministers that I knew in Louisiana. If a lot of the folks that get their "panties all in a wad" on AFF had the same spirit as Papa George, why you wouldn't recognize AFF.
Just my opinion!!!
Been Thinkin
__________________
"From the time you're born, 'til you ride in the hearse, there ain't nothing bad that couldn't be worse!"
LIFE: Some days you're the dog and some days you're the hydrant!
I have ... Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia! The fear of long words.
"Prediction is very hard, especially about the future." - Yogi Berra
"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave in reflection." - Thomas Paine
Papa George was one of the kindest and most caring ministers that I knew in Louisiana. If a lot of the folks that get their "panties all in a wad" on AFF had the same spirit as Papa George, why you wouldn't recognize AFF.
Just my opinion!!!
Been Thinkin
Would you visit a forum where everything was rainbows and butterflies?
Would you visit a forum where everything was rainbows and butterflies?
Sure. Why not?
After all, your striving to spend your eternity in just such a place.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
The AOG church I attend baptises in Jesus Name my wife about fell out of the pew when she heard the preacher say that, seeing how we came out of oneness Apostolic,and she thought they were the only ones to baptise in "Jesus name"...To me it does not matter what you say during Baptism, but it sure suprised her..
That is not an AOG doctrine. Its a church practice. I knew someone that was baptized and raised AOG and he was given the choice of how to be baptized in either way
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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