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08-16-2012, 08:49 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Church Ownership
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Originally Posted by Nitehawk013
In most cases...the bank owns the church.  |
Now that's the truth!!
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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08-16-2012, 08:50 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Church Ownership
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Originally Posted by MissBrattified
I'm not advocating pastors kicking people out for not lining up with all the rules, although flagrant disobedience is causing discord and confusion and God isn't the author of that. If someone pushed the envelope far enough and went out of their way to incite people against the teachings of the local church, removing them as members would be justifiable. There's a difference between someone attending that hasn't reached agreement yet or hasn't come into accord with the rest of the saints and someone who is openly disobeying for the purpose of airing their disagreement.
On the flip side, why would any saint want to stay somewhere that they disagree enough to disobey the rules? If my pastor asked us not to watch videos online, for instance, and we felt too strongly about the right to watch videos to comply, we would either reach an agree-to-disagree point with the pastor (e.g., open, honest communication instead of secret disobedience) or we would attend church elsewhere. Secret disobedience is a matter that goes against my conscience. While open disobedience causes discord, secret disobedience would weigh on my conscience enough to cause a problem between me and God. Does no one else feel the same about that? That would be ESPECIALLY true if I had signed any sort of church member contract agreeing to a set of stipulations.
What is the point of openly disobeying rules and church teachings? What does it accomplish?
And Charnock, are you seriously asserting that you never give your own personal opinions or personal understanding of scripture in your sermons? Really?
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I think you have a very good balance, Miss B.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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08-16-2012, 10:39 AM
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Sister Alvear
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
Posts: 27,033
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Re: Church Ownership
The work in Brazil is set up with a board of directors....Don't know if that is the best route but that is how the work we oversee is....and no before you ask our family does not tip the scales....( I personally hold no voting office...)
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Monies to help us may be sent to P.O. Box 797, Jonesville, La 71343.
If it is for one of our direct needs please mark it on the check.
Facebook Janice LaVaun Taylor Alvear
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08-16-2012, 10:41 AM
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Sister Alvear
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
Posts: 27,033
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Re: Church Ownership
In fact I don't even think Brother Alvear votes...he is honorary Bishop...Just a title and that title is not even in our bylaws...
__________________
Monies to help us may be sent to P.O. Box 797, Jonesville, La 71343.
If it is for one of our direct needs please mark it on the check.
Facebook Janice LaVaun Taylor Alvear
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08-16-2012, 11:03 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Re: Church Ownership
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
I think you have a very good balance, Miss B.
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And I would like to have coffee again sometime, ILG!!! If you're ever in town....
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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08-16-2012, 08:04 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Church Ownership
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Originally Posted by MissBrattified
And I would like to have coffee again sometime, ILG!!! If you're ever in town.... |
That would be great! I probably won't be down that way again for quite some time though...
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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08-16-2012, 09:13 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Church Ownership
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
Legally? It depends on the bylaws. Otherwise? God does, ultimately, and His laws apply.
What does His Word say about submitting to authorities?
I would leave to keep MY conscience clear; not for any other reason. Would you keep attending a church while openly disobeying church guidelines? And if so, for what purpose?
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Except my clear conscience is not dependent on "obeying" absolutely each and every church "guideline". I think we owe it to ourselves and our brethren to be open and honest concerning views. Fellowship should not hinge on perfect uniformity.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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08-16-2012, 09:20 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Church Ownership
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Originally Posted by Hoovie
Except my clear conscience is not dependent on "obeying" absolutely each and every church "guideline". I think we owe it to ourselves and our brethren to be open and honest concerning views. Fellowship should not hinge on perfect uniformity.
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I think Miss B. is speaking within reason. For example, if someone did not at all believe in standards and the pastor did it wouldn't make much sense to stick around. I think the main thing is do you agree mostly?
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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08-16-2012, 09:30 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: Church Ownership
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
I think Miss B. is speaking within reason. For example, if someone did not at all believe in standards and the pastor did it wouldn't make much sense to stick around. I think the main thing is do you agree mostly?
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I disagree. We have many in our church like this... going to guess maybe 20%.
Standards are not salvific in nature, so it would be a mistake to break fellowship due to a different conclusion in the same matters.
Just reread what you wrote... "did not at all believe"... that is subjective I suppose. Pretty much everyone believes in some I think.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Last edited by Hoovie; 08-16-2012 at 09:32 PM.
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08-17-2012, 07:48 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 449
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Re: Church Ownership
Hoovie,
I agree, with the obvious exception being any ministerial involvement - ala, Sunday School teacher, Musician, Preaching, or Teaching from the pulpit etc.
Any position of influence usually requires a much more strict uniformity then for those saints who are on the pew. What rarely gets discussed is the person who is called and gifted to minister in one or more areas but does not agree with some of the "standards".
The simple and obvious answer is to just submit to leadership and conform...sadly, the answer may be simple, but the reality is not. The fact is...even though standards may not be salvific, they are important enough to limit or even forbid ministry when not in compliance - which again is one of the points of conflict amoung those who feel many Apostolics do in fact put issues like dress on the same level as ACTS 2:38 and the oneness of God.
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