Benny Hinn rebukes Joel Osteen??

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

if benny hinn isn't a man of God, why do people fall out when he prays for them?

Power of suggestion.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

"leadership" isn't the issue. Obama knows leadership, but he isn't leading a church.

Saddam did leadership pretty well, neither was he christian nor is leadership well loved.I just find it ironic that BH laments seeking numbers for their churches and not for heaven, when they are seeking numbers for the money.

Success, American style, is based on numbers. So any church, no matter how messed up they are doctrinally or otherwise, that has the numbers is seen as successful.

But a lot of those numbers are people from other churches, not new converts to Christianity. I don't see that as success Christianity style.

Saddam a "pretty well" leader?? Your kidding???

If those numbers are from other churches, those folks obviously were not fulfilled where they were attending. I'm not a great fan of JO, however some folks need the type of encouragement that he presents.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

"leadership" isn't the issue. Obama knows leadership, but he isn't leading a church.

Saddam did leadership pretty well, neither was he christian nor is leadership well loved.I just find it ironic that BH laments seeking numbers for their churches and not for heaven, when they are seeking numbers for the money.

Success, American style, is based on numbers. So any church, no matter how messed up they are doctrinally or otherwise, that has the numbers is seen as successful.

But a lot of those numbers are people from other churches, not new converts to Christianity. I don't see that as success Christianity style.

Saddam a "pretty well" leader?? Your kidding??? Obama's leadership just got a resounding rejection from the American voters.

If those numbers are from other churches, those folks obviously were not fulfilled where they were attending. I'm not a great fan of JO, however some folks need the type of encouragement that he presents.

Seems JO's leadership is still getting the vote of many believers and no scandals, so maybe we should be a bit more gracious toward him.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Saddam a "pretty well" leader?? Your kidding???

If those numbers are from other churches, those folks obviously were not fulfilled where they were attending. I'm not a great fan of JO, however some folks need the type of encouragement that he presents.

No, Im not kidding. He gained power and kept it and built one of the worlds largest armies.

Don't confuse that with a "kind leader".

The point you seemed to miss is that, being a leader wasn't the issue MrsBrattified brought up. She did not say "he's not a good leader",

Numbers. The Mormons have numbers. The Muslims have numbers. Louis Farrakhan has numbers. Are they being successful in your view? In American Consumerism, they are very successful.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Totally agree!! Man, it's easy to take over a church pastored by a legend that died unexpectedly and hadn't prepared to be succeeded....even though he had never preached a sermon or worked in the ministry in any way and multiplied the church by many times. Sure is easy here on my couch doing nothing.

Joel Osteen's style isn't to my taste. He comes across as way too happy, smiley, pleasant and just downright bland. That's just my opinion of his style as a preacher. It's not my assessment of his character, so don't get all bent out of shape over it. I have my preferences and you have yours. Even Jesus threw a temper tantrum. If Joel Osteen threw one on the platform in the middle of a sermon, I'd probably like him better.

Regardless, I see BH's point, being that I agree we shouldn't be ashamed of Christ of the Gospel. Whether JO intended it or not, that's how his statement came across to a lot of people. Many saw it as his opportunity to be a witness, and it seems like he didn't step up to the plate. Maybe he's not sure about his doctrine, maybe he did try to answer inoffensively, or maybe he just plain chickened out. Who knows?

Paul was a good example of answering questions in public. He did a great job on Mars Hill, and he wasn't afraid to discuss potentially "offensive" concepts with Felix. He didn't discuss them offensiveLY, or no doubt Felix would have tossed him out on his ear. But this is what he discussed with Felix:

Act 24:24-25 "And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. ...And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee."

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Joel Osteen's style isn't to my taste. He comes across as way too happy, smiley, pleasant and just downright bland. That's just my opinion of his style as a preacher. It's not my assessment of his character, so don't get all bent out of shape over it. I have my preferences and you have yours. Even Jesus threw a temper tantrum. If Joel Osteen threw one on the platform in the middle of a sermon, I'd probably like him better.

Regardless, I see BH's point, being that I agree we shouldn't be ashamed of Christ of the Gospel. Whether JO intended it or not, that's how his statement came across to a lot of people. Many saw it as his opportunity to be a witness, and it seems like he didn't step up to the plate. Maybe he's not sure about his doctrine, maybe he did try to answer inoffensively, or maybe he just plain chickened out. Who knows?

Paul was a good example of answering questions in public. He did a great job on Mars Hill, and he wasn't afraid to discuss potentially "offensive" concepts with Felix. He didn't discuss them offensiveLY, or no doubt Felix would have tossed him out on his ear. But this is what he discussed with Felix:

Act 24:24-25 "And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. ...And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee."

Downright bland?? This is one of my major gripes with pentecostalism. Many have become professional critics, sitting in the audience like Simon Cowell, grading the speaker to see if he scratches their itch, rather than receiving with humility that which he has to offer. Rather than receiving the edification that's available, we analyze the oratorical skills of the speaker. This is how charlatans are able to retain notoriety even when they are claiming that a woman's hair can actually heal people. Many are more impressed with a show than a Word from God, accepting heresy from a showman while rejecting truth from a messenger, simply because he just may be too "bland."

I'm afraid the Apostle Paul would have gotten nowhere in today's pentecostal "American Preacher Idol" culture.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Downright bland?? This is one of my major gripes with pentecostalism. Many have become professional critics, sitting in the audience like Simon Cowell, grading the speaker to see if he scratches their itch, rather than receiving with humility that which he has to offer. Rather than receiving the edification that's available, we analyze the oratorical skills of the speaker. This is how charlatans are able to retain notoriety even when they are claiming that a woman's hair can actually heal people. Many are more impressed with a show than a Word from God, accepting heresy from a showman while rejecting truth from a messenger, simply because he just may be too "bland."

I'm afraid the Apostle Paul would have gotten nowhere in today's pentecostal "American Preacher Idol" culture.

Riiight.. because Osteen preaches from the bible??

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Downright bland?? This is one of my major gripes with pentecostalism. Many have become professional critics, sitting in the audience like Simon Cowell, grading the speaker to see if he scratches their itch, rather than receiving with humility that which he has to offer. Rather than receiving the edification that's available, we analyze the oratorical skills of the speaker. This is how charlatans are able to retain notoriety even when they are claiming that a woman's hair can actually heal people. Many are more impressed with a show than a Word from God, accepting heresy from a showman while rejecting truth from a messenger, simply because he just may be too "bland."

I'm afraid the Apostle Paul would have gotten nowhere in today's pentecostal "American Preacher Idol" culture.

NOW, I don't waste much time being critical of preachers, and I appreciate that most of them are just doing their best to share their beliefs. I still have preferences, and some people's mannerisms completely turn me off. You have preferences and dislikes, and you've alluded to them before. I'm not more impressed with a show; I'm much more impressed with the Word. I've sat through a lot of boring preachers and been able to pay attention and understand and appreciate their points even if they weren't very exciting.

None of those things make me a bad person, a professional critic or part of the American Idol culture.

I didn't bash Joel Osteen, and I didn't support Benny Hinn. So what are you griping about exactly? I don't really like either one of them (as far as preachers go), but Benny Hinn is the only one whose character I would call into question.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Berkley

Riiight.. because Osteen preaches from the bible??

Yes, he does. And it's a ridiculous assertion to insinuate he doesn't.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Yes, he does. And it's a ridiculous assertion to insinuate he doesn't.

Never heard him quote a scripture. Have heard him tell stories and jokes.