help ...the nazirite vow....

[A.W. Bowman]

Pel - You did real good - again!

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I'm surprised by your apparent dismissal to Josephus's references to women keeping this practice.

**** Addendum: Obviously, as you've already stated there were no doubt varying degrees of adherence to "the letter of the Law." It might be equated to the keeping of the passover by Josiah - it hadn't been done that way since the "days of the Judges."

I'm surprised by your apparent dismissal to what I did say.

I never mentioned Josephus. I spoke of what is found in the Bible. No problem if you want to site history, but as I'm sure you agree, such writings are not inspired and therefore do not carry the same weight as do the scriptures.

Jesus' best!!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

I'm surprised by your apparent dismissal to what I did say.

I never mentioned Josephus. I spoke of what is found in the Bible. No problem if you want to site history, but as I'm sure you agree, such writings are not inspired and therefore do not carry the same weight as do the scriptures.

Jesus' best!!

Yes. Sorry, I was picking at you and left off the smiley. I think that the historical reference is a valid point that women did observe the Nazarite practices, at least to some extent. I didn't "dimiss" what you said, I agree that such observances were sketchy at times as 2 Kings's account of Josiah's Passover observance indicate.

I think the only applicable use for the Nazarite vows today might be for a bunch of guys (and gals?) on a hunting trip and away from modern conveniences. But it's kind of interesting to see loose similarities in various cultures and different groups - as NFL players. It's like there is a memory of something that "haunts" us today.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The period of "abstention" in the oldest of Old Testament times was for the purposes of making war.

The Nazarite vow in the oldest Hebrew portions of the Old Testament (Judges 5) is equated with war. Most Hebrew scholars have come to see the Nazarite as a type of "Holy Warrior." The prohibitions against the use of intoxicating drinks and against sexual relations of any kind served to spare people from at least some of the ravages associated with war. Of course, this was the ideal, the truth was often more complicated.

Judges 5:2 is translated as: "when locks hung loose in Israel" instead of the KJV's "when the people willingly offered themselves..." There was more on this theme HERE on another thread dealing with long hair and beards. I'm at work and don't have all my resources, but HERE'S a commentary that gives a flavor of what I'm saying.

Urriah the Hittite protested when King David sent him home to his wife during a time of battle. The text seems to make it clear that David could have avoided some complications in his life had he kept to the warrior's creed regarding sex "when the kings go out to war..."

Absalom with his thick growth of hair was considered the proto-typical warrior, until being undone by the same hair.

Most ancient cultures and many into the modern age follow this same pattern. From the Chinese "queue" to the Samurai's uncut hair to the Celts and the Phillistines and the Greek, warriors would usually go without cutting their hair or their beards throughout a campaign season. This practice was followed by soldiers on both sides during the US Civil War.

Many NFL football players follow this same behavior, perhaps completely unaware of their connection to the warriors in the past.

Was Paul's Nazarite vow related to a war?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Was Paul's Nazarite vow related to a war?

That's an interesting issue. Paul obviously thought of himself as being in a "war" (Ephesians 6:12). There is the fact that we as Christian believers are not under the Law and not beholden to it's commands and curses. We see these various aspects of the Law as types and shadows of the things that we face today.

So, though Paul himself wasn't "making war" in the physical sense, he was at war in a spiritual sense. It seems that even in OT times this was an aspect of the Nazarite vows as in the references that Josephus makes.

Being "seperated" unto the Lord involved a variety of types of "separation." One important aspect in the OT was to be separated as a "Holy Warrior" for the defense and conquest of the Holy Land. The Nazarite vows can help us to understand some of the behavior of the OT characters like Urriah.