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  #21  
Old 10-30-2010, 10:03 PM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Re: History of tithes in North America

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Originally Posted by Sabby View Post
Wow, Sam,

Great essay and right on the money!

Seriously, this is a divisive issue particularly for pastors that need tithes to continue to be "full-time". So many preachers go into ministry with the idea of pastoring a "big church" that is self-supporting; iow, can afford paying a pastor a "full-time" salary. Being full-time becomes a guage of ministerial success in some quarters and can be very stressful. Rethinking tithing will require ministry to completely reorganize the way we "do" church.
Do you think this will be seriously discussed at any GCs any time soon? lol
I don't know who wrote this originally, the name of the author or what group he is part of.
The url referenced is no longer working.
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  #22  
Old 11-01-2010, 07:40 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: History of tithes in North America

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Originally Posted by James Griffin View Post
BUMP for Aquila
Very interesting.

I think the entire tithing paradigm is slowly being brought into the light for the modern innovation that it truly is.
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  #23  
Old 11-01-2010, 08:37 AM
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Re: History of tithes in North America

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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
The interesting thing about this is that it nullifies the notion that the intent of the Framers of the Constitution wanted to completly seperate all forms of relegious activity from the public square.

If for 40 years there was no federal challenge to state law on the subject, then one cannot argue that the intent of the constitution is to keep the 10 commandments out of state houses or manger scenes off the court house lawn.
I'd rather disagree with that. It took 14 years after the Constitution was ratified before the first case (Marbury v. Madison, 1803) was argued that established the Supreme Court could perform judicial review and actually declare something "unconstitutional." Since then, great legal minds have been arguing about "intent."

Additionally, it should be noted that you have to have a case and a lower court judgment in order to bring an appeal to find something constitutional or not. A lot of stuff gets taken care of at the lower court levels; much of the time, the Supreme Court is trying to sort out differences made at the appellate court level in the cases it takes for review.

Also, I really don't think that you should want to rely on the laws as they existed just after the end of the Revolutionary War. In addition to establishing state churches and requiring payment to same, some colonies also required church attendance and proscribed celebration of certain holidays, such as Christmas. (The Puritans thought Christmas - Christ Mass - was too Catholic for their tastes and expected everyone to be up and working on Dec. 25.)

Finally, sometimes it takes a very long time for things that are wrong to be straightened out. Slavery and the subsequent Jim Crow laws are but one example.

I should note that I am an ardent church-state separationist, an attitude that was honed in the seven years I lived in Utah. People who don't understand why church and state should be separate should be forced to live a few years in Provo, Utah, and then they'll get it.
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  #24  
Old 11-01-2010, 09:36 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: History of tithes in North America

I've noticed that those against the separation of church and state always assume that their religion and religious convictions will be what the government sanctions. Foolish, foolish, foolish.

Consider this... Non Orthodox Christian groups (Apostolics) would be forced to pay taxes and could face penalties for witnessing.

Also, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the United States. Tear down the wall of separation and your grandchildren will see Shariah law in their communities.

Christians should be radically libertarian and support the separation of church and state. Government has proven time and time again to be no friend of the church.
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  #25  
Old 11-01-2010, 10:57 AM
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Sam Sam is offline
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Re: History of tithes in North America

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
...
Also, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the United States. Tear down the wall of separation and your grandchildren will see Shariah law in their communities.
...
I expect that as Muslims out populate Christians we will see an effort and a success in areas of this country being exempt from local laws and governed by sharia law. I expect sharia law to gain more and more influence until we are all under it. This is called bloodless jihad.
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  #26  
Old 11-01-2010, 11:07 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: History of tithes in North America

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I expect that as Muslims out populate Christians we will see an effort and a success in areas of this country being exempt from local laws and governed by sharia law. I expect sharia law to gain more and more influence until we are all under it. This is called bloodless jihad.
Yep. If we want to protect our culture and republic... we best support the separation of church and state.
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