Is the Holiness Movement Dead? - Page 3

mfblume · #21 01-21-2009, 12:44 PM

What does God intend us to understand by the term holiness? It simply means BELONGING TO, and in this case, belonging to God. And the way we live should reflect that. I believe in modesty, but I think it got way out of whack when standards that are not found in the bible, or are the result of misreading what the Bible does say, started to high-jack what holiness is supposed to mean.

Withdrawn · #22 01-21-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

What does God intend us to understand by the term holiness? It simply means BELONGING TO, and in this case, belonging to God. And the way we live should reflect that. I believe in modesty, but I think it got way out of whack when standards that are not found in the bible, or are the result of misreading what the Bible does say, started to high-jack what holiness is supposed to mean.

Yep!

BobDylan · #23 01-21-2009, 01:42 PM

I simply suggest that the holiness movement is not dead!

mizpeh · #24 01-21-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobDylan

I simply suggest that the holiness movement is not dead!

If you hang around AFF for awhile you may think it has long since been dead and buried!

ManOfWord · #25 01-21-2009, 02:56 PM

I believe in holiness. I preach holiness. Holiness is two things: Separated FROM & Separated TO.

The debate is over the measure of separation. Most "holiness" organizations are built on the Greek idea of "duality." Flesh and Spirit. The SPIRIT is good and the FLESH is bad. Therefore, everything of the SPIRIT is good and everything of the FLESH is bad.

Jesus never said that. Jesus said that the SPIRIT is willing but the FLESH is weak. Jesus didn't create something that was bad. He made the world and our bodies to enjoy what He made for US!

However, we are to enjoy all He made for us, including the world and the things in it, withing the protective boundaries of His word. When principles of holiness take a backseat to the "specifics" of holiness, legalism reigns. There is a ditch on the other side of the holiness road as well.

When principles of holiness are above specifics of holiness, God loving, intelligent people will, hopefully make decisions based upon God's word.

I will "set no wicked thing before my eyes" has absolutely nothing to do with television. It has everything to do with moral or immoral input from ANY media.

In the OT, the ceremonial "law" had nothing to do with salvation and everything to do with being Jewish. It was NEVER, "How saved is someone?" It was, "How Jewish is someone?" If you were truly Jewish, you did XYZ. It was not that XYZ made you saved or was connected to our salvation.

The scripture doesn't say TV is bad! However, there are things on TV that ARE bad and we should not set them before our eyes/heart. The same with the written word, spoken word and illustrated word...there is no difference. I don't care whether you rent it or pay for a ticket. If it's wicked, it's wicked. If I preach that, I don't have to deal with the TV or Movie Theatre issue.

freeatlast · #26 01-21-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

Are Oneness Pentecostals still "holiness" people?

Is the concept of holiness unimportant to us?

Is ole time holiness preaching DOA?

I'd have to know if holiness means to you what it means to most OP's STANDARDS ??

freeatlast · #27 01-21-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I think the holiness movement as described is dead. However, there will always be folks trying to add to the word of God.

We see a lot of the same confusion of the holiness movement in the charismatic and pentecostal movements. Folks are always trying to find a newer and easier way to live for God. We will constantly see these fads and trends happen as long as people don't have a strong understanding and hunger for the word of God.

There is a book by Dr. Harry Ironside, Holiness: The False and the True that describes his conversion from the holiness movement and the confusion that he suffered because of the teachings of the movement.

Here is a link to some of his writings.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/BTP/D...e/holiness.htm

I have that book and it also delt with the doctrine of sinless perfection.

MissBrattified · #28 01-21-2009, 03:00 PM

Hmmmm. Since "holiness" was never all-encompassing, never consistent in application, and never even church-wide within Pentecostal ranks, I would say that if its dead now, it was dead 15 or 20 years ago. It's sort of a moot point.

Of course, I'm using the term "holiness" within the context of this thread, mostly in regard to outward appearance/standards only.

freeatlast · #29 01-21-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Hmmmm. Since "holiness" was never all-encompassing, never consistent in application, and never even church-wide within Pentecostal ranks, I would say that if its dead now, it was dead 15 or 20 years ago. It's sort of a moot point.

Of course, I'm using the term "holiness" within the context of this thread, mostly in regard to outward appearance/standards only.

Oh..that version of holiness. No, it's not dead, but could someone just please put it out of it's misery.

Sam · #30 01-21-2009, 03:31 PM

I have several of Dr. Ironside's books.
That was a good article.

When the Holy Spirit Baptism began to be poured out in the late 1800's and early 1900's many of the folks had come from a "holiness" background. They believed that they had been saved and subsequently "sanctified" or "baptized in the Spirit." So, when they received the "tongues" experience they went to a three works of grace stand. Some would testify to being saved, sanctified, and baptized in the Holy Ghost. Later through a teaching called "the finished work of Calvary" many abandoned the idea that sin or the old nature was eradicated in a second blessing and just preached salvation and a subsequent Holy Ghost Baptism (tongues). The Assemblies of God developed from those who denied the "second blessing." The Cleveland Church of God and the Church of God in Christ maintained the three steps or three experiences. Some Oneness churches also believe in a second blessing holiness experience in between repentance and the Holy Ghost Baptism.

Some years ago I was in a Church of God (Cleveland, TN) meeting where they reported on the statistics from a recent Youth Camp. They told how many had been saved, how many had been sanctified, and how many had been baptized in the Spirit.