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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #21  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by rrford View Post
Not sure how you mean that statement. Is one part of the bride prior to taking in His name in baptism? It would seem that the implication is that one becomes part of the bride at justification.
what i took away from that is, those who have received the HG are in the "Body" but not the Bride ???
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  #22  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
The light doctrine is an attempt to balance the goodness and severity of God. If one lived up to all the truth they knew where would be their sin?

It could be the application of "to whom much is given much is required" or vice versa.
I disagree. I see the light doctrine as an attempt to reconcile a very real conversion experiance with later revalation.

consider that the men who espoused this doctrine were deeply commited christians BEFORE they found the revalation of the Mighty God in Christ and the Acts 2:38 experiance.

Urshan wrote about his "conversion experiance" where he accepted Christ but then he later found the revalation and Acts 2:38.

There is no question that Haywood/Urshan/Haney and others preached the Apostolic message with all their hearts. But they had very real encounters with God long before they found the Apostolic message.
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  #23  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:59 AM
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If the Admin here at AFF had some real spunk, they would get Brother Seagraves to come here and at least provide us some articles....
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  #24  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
I disagree. I see the light doctrine as an attempt to reconcile a very real conversion experiance with later revalation.

consider that the men who espoused this doctrine were deeply commited christians BEFORE they found the revalation of the Mighty God in Christ and the Acts 2:38 experiance.

Urshan wrote about his "conversion experiance" where he accepted Christ but then he later found the revalation and Acts 2:38.

There is no question that Haywood/Urshan/Haney and others preached the Apostolic message with all their hearts. But they had very real encounters with God long before they found the Apostolic message.
Paul did have a experience with God ,on the Damacus road , before He came into a more fuller experience.
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  #25  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Thad View Post
I have high respect for Bro Seagraves and If this Question offends anyone I am hoping and asking that the thread be deleted " If it offends your Brother".......
anyhow, I know that he use to have a site where people could ask him Bible Questions and there was some commotion about the fact that he eluded to what would be considered the Old " light doctrine".

Is it wrong to believe in the light doctrine? can you be considered a 3 stepper and believe in it ?
what exactly is it ? If my memory serves me right tonight, I thought it was where only those Baptized in Jesus Name will make it in the rapture? all others will stay through the wrath of God in the tribulation and then be the servant of those who were bapt. In JN ?
All these people will be those who walked in all they knew and were not given deeper revelation by God.

what scriptures do they use for this Doctrine? I'd be interested in reading up on it - thanks
The "old" light doctrine? It's pretty current based on the number of preachers around today who believe it.

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  #26  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrford View Post
Not sure how you mean that statement. Is one part of the bride prior to taking in His name in baptism? It would seem that the implication is that one becomes part of the bride at justification.
It means exactly that, you cant be in the bride of Christ, go in the rapture without being baptized in Jesus Name.
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  #27  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
If the Admin here at AFF had some real spunk, they would get Brother Seagraves to come here and at least provide us some articles....
I will be happy to share some of his paper from the UGST Symposium, where he outlines the Justification at Faith.
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  #28  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:20 PM
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The Role of Faith in Justification

Presented by Daniel Segraves

The doctrine of justification found in the New Testament is rooted in Abraham’s experience, who “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness” (Romans 4:3). New Testament believers are said to stand in solidarity with Abraham – the father of all who believe – in justification.
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised (Romans 4:11-12).

The event in view in Romans 4:3 is recorded in Genesis 15:5-6:
Then He brought him outside and said, ‘Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.’ And He said to him, ‘So shall your descendants be.’ And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Abraham’s only response to God’s promise at this point was that “he believed in the LORD.” The verb “!ma”, translated “believed,” indicates that Abraham trusted God to keep His promise. It is significant for the doctrine of justification that no other response was expected or possible at this point. Although the genuineness of Abraham’s faith was later demonstrated in a tangible way as he offered Isaac, it serves Paul’s purpose to focus on the fact that Abraham was justified apart from and prior to works. Even circumcision, although it was a command of God, was a “sign,” “a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised” (Romans 4:11).
Paul’s point is that the only requirement for justification is genuine faith. Although faith results in obedience to God’s commands, justification occurs at the point
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  #29  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:22 PM
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Another portion:

The validity of Abraham’s faith was not questioned because there was no active demonstration of that faith. And Abraham’s justification did not await an opportunity for him to show the genuineness of his faith by obedience. Although genuine faith in God will result in obedience to God, the faith is genuine before obedience. This is precisely Paul’s point. Since the faith is genuine, whatever benefit accrues to faith is enjoyed from the moment of faith. In Abraham’s case – and in the case of all who share Abraham’s faith – that benefit is justification.
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  #30  
Old 04-04-2007, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by keith4him View Post
I will be happy to share some of his paper from the UGST Symposium, where he outlines the Justification at Faith.
cool. thanks.

I would still like to see him posting here.
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