If it's out of the blue (not something God was dealing with me about), but it lines up with Scripture, then what? Does it matter who got the message and passed it on to me? If it was a Pentecostal preacher, does that lend any weight to it? Should I ask for credentials, check the track record?
I know a guy who got totally messed up from a "word" from a "well known prophet." It went like this...
Out of the blue this prophet calls him out of the congregation. Speaks that he has been called to help the addicted, bring freedom, and all the good anointing stuff. This was totally out of the blue. He had never considered, desired, or even thought about working with the addicted.
He quits his job and goes to work at a half way house. Working with, teaching, mentoring and fulfilling "the call of God on His life."
When I came into his life he asked me why nothing was working. Why he hated being at this place. Why he couldn't make ends met when God had "called him."
To me it was obvious...we are not led by prophecy or "a word" we are led by the Spirit. Any "word" that comes along should bring confirmation to how the Spirit is leading us.
we must not fall into the category of "despising prophecy" either
When you've seen more misses than hits, when more often than not the "prophecies" are bogus, outright lies sometimes, wishful (but untrue) thinking other times, blatant manipulation many times, why not??
It seems that a lot of Pentecostals, who say they believe in prophecy (for today) and words of knowledge and all kinds of direct intervention by God Himself, don't really understand the importance of what they say they believe, and how astounding and outrageously extreme their claim is. God - the creator of EVERYTHING - takes the time and effort to single out one of His children and given him or her some advice. Join that church. Start that business. Buy that car. Tell that guy that I will heal his brother of cancer.
Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.
If this is not an extraordinary claim, then what is? If such claims don't demand extraordinary proof, then what does? Why should we just take someone's word for it, without proof (none at all, let alone extraordinary proof), that God has spoken?
In my view, the evidence against the existence of true prophecy etc. far outweighs any evidence in favor. For every predictive prophecy that is amazingly accurate, and the story of which is therefore spread far and wide and talked about for a long time, there must be a hundred or more flops, which are simply forgiven and forgotten. And nobody is allowed to point out the obvious: that random predictions will randomly come true. (Nor that prediction is a skill that can be improved with practice, and completely without the need for divine help.) Which brings up the obvious question: why bother?WHY??
Think about it. I know I'm considered an apostate/reprobate here, but please: Stop and think about it. Why would God, once in a while, give certain select few individuals, for whatever reason, some special messages, and expect them to be believed (that they are really from Him, and are therefore really true), even though there are countless charlatans around, making things up out of whole cloth, and lots of sincere and well-meaning wonderful people who honestly believe that a random hunch was a message from God? How does He expect people to distinguish His truly supernatural messages from the fakes?
One "how" I've heard is "it has to line up with the Word". Not good enough. Lots of made-up "words from the Lord" can line up, without actually being from God. The cancer healing, for example. Then there is this astonishingly pointless "how": "if it doesn't come true, it wasn't from God". OK, the Lord just gave me a word. He told me to tell you that the sun will rise tomorrow. If that "prophecy" comes true, does that prove that it came from God? Of course not! And the one about confirming something that God has been dealing with you is almost as pointless. The same randomness and skill that applies to predictions comes in to play.
You may have "discerned" by now that this is a very big deal, to me. I have referred to my own experience in the brother-with-cancer example. My brother was terminally ill in 2001. Visiting preacher, after praying for him at my request, tells me "God told me He's going to heal your brother." This perfectly lines up with the Word -- I don't have to tell you there are many, many healing scriptures. While it didn't exactly confirm something in my heart (I was praying, but my faith was already wavering by then), but there were others for whom that could be true. Many people were praying and believing for my brother's healing. Hundreds, maybe thousands.
He died in January, 2002.
Call me bitter, if you like. I call myself awakened. Reality is real. Wishful thinking is wishful thinking.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I know a guy who got totally messed up from a "word" from a "well known prophet." It went like this...
Out of the blue this prophet calls him out of the congregation. Speaks that he has been called to help the addicted, bring freedom, and all the good anointing stuff. This was totally out of the blue. He had never considered, desired, or even thought about working with the addicted.
He quits his job and goes to work at a half way house. Working with, teaching, mentoring and fulfilling "the call of God on His life."
When I came into his life he asked me why nothing was working. Why he hated being at this place. Why he couldn't make ends met when God had "called him."
To me it was obvious...we are not led by prophecy or "a word" we are led by the Spirit. Any "word" that comes along should bring confirmation to how the Spirit is leading us.
Which points out why I feel so strongly about this: fake messages from God cause real damage. They can ruin lives!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
And then there's Deanna Laney. Pentecostal, all her life. Undoubtedly heard the really "spiritual" people say, countless times, God told me this or God led me to do that. Also heard that when we die, we will go to hell if we have not been saved. And she must have heard the teaching that children who die don't go to hell, since they were too young to decide for themselves.
God told her to kill her children, just as He told Abraham to kill Isaack. (It lines up.) God stopped Abraham, but He didn't stop Deanna.
Insane? Of course. But nobody could tell that, until after the murders. She looked and acted and talked just like all the other Pentecostal believers. She testified that God told her to put her house in order. Her pastor didn't notice anything unusual. God didn't warn him about her. Odd. Didn't think it was necessary to protect those children, apparently.
If you're thinking this is absurd -- God would never tell anyone to kill their children, everyone knows that -- tell me this: where will her dead children spend eternity? If they end up in Heaven, well then I suppose you agree that what Deanna did was a good thing. Selfless and merciful, even if you don't think God gave her the order. Otherwise, the kids might have grown up and rejected Christ!
Or, perhaps you might agree with me, that killing children is an evil act, and that if Deanna had not been a Pentecostal, she would not have been led by God to commit murder. The kids would be alive now. (One of the three survived, by the way, nearly blind, with brain-damage.)
I agree with you, if you believe that God doesn't tell anyone to kill (anymore). I take it a step further: God doesn't tell anyone anything. And even if I'm wrong, it's a much safer policy, don't you think? I'll never kill anyone on God's orders. Never tell someone to change careers, on God's orders. Never lie about God's plans for healing someone.
Make your own decisions, based on common sense, your education and experience, advice from friends and family, etc. Trust God for giving you the tools you need, but not for specific commands! Am I an evil reprobate, for thinking such things, for daring to write them, casting doubt? Maybe I should set up a vote.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
When you've seen more misses than hits, when more often than not the "prophecies" are bogus, outright lies sometimes, wishful (but untrue) thinking other times, blatant manipulation many times, why not??
Simply because the Bible tells us not to despise prophecy
I disagree with the Bible, then. I've laid out the reasons. Are they valid? If not, where are they flawed?
Did you know that there is a "Flat Earth Society?" They claim to be "enlightened" and that those of us that believe in a round earth are deceived.
I share this because you think you are "enlightened" that you have figured things out. If there is a God who created all this stuff that we call a world, eco system, cells, atoms and so forth then He is a lot smarter than you and I.
I believe that there is a God, I believe that His Word is contained in what is known as the Bible. To that conclusion all else is just opinions. You are obviously free to believe whatever you want, just like those who insist that the earth is flat.
Did you know that there is a "Flat Earth Society?" They claim to be "enlightened" and that those of us that believe in a round earth are deceived.
I share this because you think you are "enlightened" that you have figured things out. If there is a God who created all this stuff that we call a world, eco system, cells, atoms and so forth then He is a lot smarter than you and I.
I believe that there is a God, I believe that His Word is contained in what is known as the Bible. To that conclusion all else is just opinions. You are obviously free to believe whatever you want, just like those who insist that the earth is flat.
You make some good points. But the flat earth could just as easily represent your position. In fact, the evidence leans heavily in that direction. I have given some of that evidence here. What evidence is there for your side?
How likely is that God, who is a lot smarter than you and I, would use a method of communication that is unreliable, filled with potential for abuse, and is in fact abused all the time? I submit that there is no way to know whether any potential message from God is really from God or not. It's not just difficult to know. It's impossible.
If it's impossible to tell, what is the point?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
If it's out of the blue (not something God was dealing with me about), but it lines up with Scripture, then what? Does it matter who got the message and passed it on to me? If it was a Pentecostal preacher, does that lend any weight to it? Should I ask for credentials, check the track record?
If you have not been dealing with the issue, not idea, but it lines up with the word, give God time. If it a real word you will get confirmation on it. In the mean time trusting in it is not bad as long as it lines up with the Word. If it is not from God then you will not get confirmation and you will begin to know that it was just someone speaking from their heart and not the Spirit.
I have had people say things to me and I know when it is from God and when it isn't. Can't tell you know I know I just do. I have also had things given to me to tell people. Until recent years I was always afraid to say anything but now I am learning to trust in what I 'hear' a bit more.
If you have not been dealing with the issue, not idea, but it lines up with the word, give God time. If it a real word you will get confirmation on it. In the mean time trusting in it is not bad as long as it lines up with the Word. If it is not from God then you will not get confirmation and you will begin to know that it was just someone speaking from their heart and not the Spirit.
I have had people say things to me and I know when it is from God and when it isn't. Can't tell you know I know I just do. I have also had things given to me to tell people. Until recent years I was always afraid to say anything but now I am learning to trust in what I 'hear' a bit more.
And what would be the point of trusting in it, e.g. if it's a prediction, until (and if) it is proven false?
"God told me to tell you that He will heal your brother!" Oh, that's wonderful! Praise God! Thank you Jesus! I'm on cloud nine!
And when my brother dies, then what?
"God said you will work with drug addicts."
The guy quits his job and starts the new career God has for him. (Turned out to be true, in the predictive sense. But that's pointless -- it was self-fulfilling. More of a command and an obedience.) When that fizzles, then what?
"God said to tell you that He loves you."
OK, maybe now we're getting somewhere. What could possibly go wrong with this one? Maybe nothing. Maybe it's an encouragement that was badly needed at the time. Maybe a single mom finds some strength in that word. But: does any of this prove that God tapped somebody on the shoulder and actually said to go tell her that I love her?
Or is it really not such a big deal? So what, if these things are sometimes just made up out of whole cloth? So what, if sometimes they fizzle -- once in a while they bring about something good! Even if it's just a made-up, imaginary message, it doesn't matter, if it helps someone. Right?
I say no. The odds are against it being helpful (IMO), and even if it's helpful, a lie is a lie. And there are other ways of helping people besides lying to them.
Not saying you are a liar, Jax. But, IMO, many, if not all, words from God are merely the work of our own minds, coming up with ideas, even subconsciously many times, picking up clues. In a desire to help, and to be used by God, we may assume that these ideas that seem to arrive out of the blue must be from God. That's not lying. It's just misconstruing! With good intentions.
But then, there are plenty of intentional liars out there, too. They're in it for the money and/or for the glory. They know they make it up, and some of them have good skills, getting a pretty good hit to miss ratio.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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