Scriptural reference in the OT of the LAW being...

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

1Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

Again I need OT scripture. Also what is SIN? Anything without faith. What is the proper understanding of faith. It's when God's Word is revealed through scripture or Spirit and you respond properly to it. Thus when Moses is read..... Act 15:21 For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues." or God's Word is given forth or revealed and it speaks to you... you respond properly(faith) or you don't (sin) If you don't respond properly you are missing the mark thus is sin. To know to do right and doeth not it is SIN!

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,

what law??? Does God's nature change?

Rom 14:23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

If you are ignorant of God's will/law your knowledge will not condemn you but if you know what to do and doeth it not per God's revealed Word to you it is sin. As you have not repsonded properly(faith).


Heb 11:6 And without faith(proper response to his Word or works) it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

The law cannot be done away as it judges and heaven and earth shall pass away before can be done away. Because judgement canot be if there is no law.

Rom 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.
1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.


Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
Rev 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."
Rev 21:5 And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
Rev 21:6 And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment.
Rev 21:7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."


Rev 22:3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.

Rev 22:11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy."


Was this spoken of by our Messiah?

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (MAKE THEM FULL OR REVEALED OR KNOWN) He did and still is!
Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. (WHICH IS THE JUDGMENT OF ALL MENS SINS AND DEATH IS DESTROYED)
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Yes it made you free form the bondage that your FLESH caused. You are never free from God's laws! His law did not cuase your problem, your flesh did. You are a servant to whom you obey! To God or to the flesh. You have been given power to overcome but if you choose the flesh you will die. How can you die if law still does not have power in your life? Law cannot be done away! It is your flesh that fights the commandments/will/word of God.

Rom 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God (or at enmity), for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

As Paul said, Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

1Co 7:19 For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God.

this is done through FAITH(proper response) to the leading of the Spirit.

As Abraham kept God's word so do we also to keep covenant.

Gen 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless,
Gen 17:2 that I may make my covenant between me and you, and may multiply you greatly."
Gen 17:3 Then Abram fell on his face. And God said to him,


Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." The man of Faith's covenant was dependant on HIS repsonse to God's laws etc...

We now as Gentiles have the law written on the heart. What law?

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law(MOSAIC COVENANT) written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

God will judge your level of response to his LAWS and seeking him!

[U376977]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

... abolished. Does anyone have OT scripture that the LAW of God would be abolished or done away with?

We have covenants and then we have the Law of God. God's covenants always reflect his revealed eternal nature/law.

Read Dt. 28. That tells the consequence of broken covenant under the Mosiac Law. I believe the events of 70 AD are Dt. 28 fulfilled.

There are about 7 major covenants between God and man in the Bible. In the eastern mindset, a covenant contained a "law." Therefore "laws" are stipulations of the larger covenant.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by U376977

Read Dt. 28. That tells the consequence of broken covenant under the Mosiac Law. I believe the events of 70 AD are Dt. 28 fulfilled.

There are about 7 major covenants between God and man in the Bible. In the eastern mindset, a covenant contained a "law." Therefore "laws" are stipulations of the larger covenant.

As posted above....

The law cannot be done away as it judges and heaven and earth shall pass away before can be done away. Because judgement canot be if there is no law.

Rom 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "all things are put in subjection," it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him.
1Co 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.


Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Rev 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.
Rev 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."
Rev 21:5 And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
Rev 21:6 And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment.
Rev 21:7 The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."


Rev 22:3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.

Rev 22:11 Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy."


Was this spoken of by our Messiah?

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. (MAKE THEM FULL OR REVEALED OR KNOWN) He did and still is!
Mat 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. (WHICH IS THE JUDGMENT OF ALL MENS SINS AND DEATH IS DESTROYED)
Mat 5:19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Also ALL LAWS those of the physical universe are also hinged on this. All things have to be created NEW for his law to change the order of things in this creation and the aspect of fallen man. Until that day comes when ALL THINGS are created NEW and the current heaven and earth pass away. Law is still law! Our relationship may have changed but God's desire and his righteousness are still the same in this present age.

yoU wiLl noT fiNd A JeWisH BeLIEVer WhO BeLIEVEs thAt the ABrAhamIC CoveNeNANT endEd WitH thE LAw or ThAt the LAw RePlaced thE evErLastINg CoVenaNT GoD MaDe wiTH AbrAhaM.

PaUl teLLs Us thaT the GOSpel waS PreaChed to AbRaHAm on The BaSIS oF a PrOmiSe thAt in His LoiNs LaY the PrOMisE oF FAith. It IS FuLfilleD in JeSuS CHrIST anD cOntINue wHEn IN FAith We RecEive HE whO MaKes EveN thE LaW PeRFect In Our LIves.

THe JeWs See the LaW as A WitnesS - or A MaRRiage CoNTRact - of The EverLasTing COveNAnt (PrOmisE) tHAt He MaDe to TheIR FaTher AbraHam.

DisPensAtIOnalISm is RearIng ITs Ugly HeAD in thIS tHReaD ....

It is on the Abrahamic covenant that Dispensationalism most obviously founders. A supposed antithesis between the Abrahamic covenant and the Mosaic dispensation, plus the antithesis and mutual incompatibility between both and he New Testament covenant of grace, is a contradiction of both Testaments.


Even in the so-called Mosaic dispensation, Deuteronomy 1:8 and 4:31 briefly and partially, yet unmistakably, appeal to the covenant with Abraham. In an earlier passage, Moses prays for forgiveness on the basis of the promise to Abraham (Exodus 32:13).


More clearly, Leviticus 26:42 specifies the Abrahamic covenant as the basis for God’s dealing with the Israelites after the Exodus. The unity of the covenant and its application during the time of David is expressed in Psalm 105:8-10: “He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac; and confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant.” Note that it is an everlasting covenant, one that did not cease at the Exodus.


But of course the clearest and most important passage is Galatians 3:6-9,17: “Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, for seeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So that they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham . . .. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.”


The first few verses of this quotation show that the elect in New Testament times are saved on the basis of the Abrahamic covenant and are counted as children of the patriarch. Further, these verses state that God’s declaration to Abraham was in essence the very gospel that Paul preached. Not only so, but at the time of Abraham God explained to him that the covenant included the Gentiles.


In the next place, Paul expressly affirms that the Mosaic “dispensation” could not disannul the Abrahamic covenant that four hundred and thirty years earlier had been confirmed in Christ. In Christ, no less. The Mosaic ritual, Paul explains, was a temporary arrangement necessary because of the sins of the Israelites. It was to cease when the Messiah should come. Even during the Mosaic administration, the Abrahamic covenant was not disannulled, set aside, invalidated, or made of no effect. The Abrahamic covenant was operative all through the alleged dispensation of law. No one was ever saved by keeping the law. No one ever kept the law. Salvation, now, then, and always has been by grace through faith. Hence from the fall of Adam there has been one, just one continuing Covenant of Grace.


This unmasks another subsidiary though important instance in Scofield’s footnote to Matthew 16:18: “Israel was a true church, but not in any sense the New Testament church—the only point of similarity being that both were ‘called out’ [ek-klesia], and by the same God. All else is contrast.” But not all else is contrast. Israel and the New Testament Gentiles were not only as a matter of fact called out by the same God, but they were called out to the same salvation from sin. This salvation in both cases depended on faith in the same promises. To say otherwise, as Scofield does, is to imply that either David or Cornelius failed to arrive in Heaven.

SoMe Also ConFUse the LAw of Sin And DeAth witH the MOsAic LaW.

[LUKE2447]

Dispensationalism is a lie and very ugly but that is for another thread.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Quixotic

SoMe Also ConFUse the LAw of Sin And DeAth witH the MOsAic LaW.

Yep not the same thing. One is God's law the other is the law of the flesh.

Romans 8 in which it is contrasted with the Law of the Spirit that do war. Which is the law referenced in Romans 2 which is written on our hearts.

FoR the DIspEnsAtionALists:

Covenant]

The word Covenant in the Greek is [diatheke] (often translated Testament), and in the Hebrew is [beriyth]. They both mean to make 'a promise or solemn oath' (genesis 26:3). For example, an agreement that one will give land to his son upon his death is a covenant. It is to promise, or make testimony or witness that you will do something. It can be a conditional covenant, or it can be an unconditional covenant. For example, marriage is an unconditional covenant. i.e., it is a solemn promise or oath that two are now one till death do them part. Or for example:

Jeremiah 33:25

* "Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;"

This is God's oath or 'promise' that we will have day and night 'till He come,' and it shall not be broken.

Genesis 9:15

* "And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh."

This Covenant was a 'promise' or solemn oath by God that He would not destroy all flesh by a flood anymore. But a Covenant or promise may also be conditional.

Psalms 132:12

* "If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore."

In other words, the promise (covenant) is that if we obey, then we shall sit upon thrones in the Kingdom. When we see a 'conditional' covenant, we call it a 'covenant of works.' While a unconditional covenant is a 'covenant of Grace' (unmerited by works). Promises of God in scripture are seen to fall into one of these two categories.

Galatians 3:17

* "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect."

The Covenant and the promise are synonymous. When God made a Covenant with Abraham that his seed (Christ) would inherit the kingdom, that was a 'promise' which we also have part in, if we have part in Christ.

Galatians 3:29

* "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

To correctly define 'covenant' we need to look to the scriptures as our dictionary. And doing this we see that the word most nearly means a promise or agreement (mutual or singular) to do, or not do something. Just as a last will and testament is a promise of possession after death. Which (not curiously) God himself uses to define the inheritance (Hebrews 9:16-17) which He secures for us.

http://members.aol.com/twarren14/covenant_theol.html

[LUKE2447]

Also notice how the righteous requirement is fullfilled. Which also is a term used when he came to make the law more full.

Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The two laws at war!