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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #21  
Old 03-23-2007, 10:36 AM
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What if someone is baptised "in the name of the Lord" or "in the name of Christ"?
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  #22  
Old 03-23-2007, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron View Post
Yes, I believe so.
Matthew 28:19-20

So, Jesus told the eleven to do something (baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit). Then he told them to teach them (all nations, i.e., you and me) to do likewise. So, Peter knew better than Jesus how to accomplish (the fulfillment) that particular thing? Peter must have thought, "Hmm. When Jesus said to baptize like that, what He really meant was this. I'll correct His error." Is that correct?
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  #23  
Old 03-23-2007, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig View Post
So, Matthew saw baptism in Jesus name for over 20 years, yet when it came time for him to write about it he spelled it out - - maybe that was for a reason......proving that "the name" is all three.
THREE....don't say three around here...you'll give somebody a coranary.
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  #24  
Old 03-23-2007, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by freeatlast View Post
The accounts of baptism use varing wording, name of the Lord, name of the Lord Jesus, name of Jesus Christ.

Then Matthew writes about baptism. He writes this after seeing people being baptized for over twenty years in the histroy of the Christian Church., he writes in the name of the F. S. & H.G.

I sometimes think we are way more excited about what is said than God is.

Do you think when God hears and see's someone being baptized and hears name of Father Son and Holy ghost, that he is bewilderd and does not know who it is that is being referd to.

Ya all go ahead and shoot me now. I have been baptized in the name. I have baptized and will continue to baptize in the name.

I feel it is the most correct thing to "say" but I will not throw out someones sincere and real experience with God over a techncallity.
Freeatlast, I ain't going to shoot you, nor knock your belief.
I will say this though, what you call a technicality what if Jesus calls it nessecary?
Would you want to take that risk?

Sometimes I fear that we treat God in our own human viewpoint. I have sinners tell me in the world, "God won't judge us, he is full of Grace and mercy."

That may be our downfall if we treat a "command" as a "technicality" and end up missing the boat.

I would rather be sure.
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  #25  
Old 03-23-2007, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeatlast View Post
THREE....don't say three around here...you'll give somebody a coranary.
Just stirring the brains today......
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  #26  
Old 03-23-2007, 10:50 AM
OGIA OGIA is offline


 
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Originally Posted by rgcraig View Post
Just stirring the brains today......
Brains, pot. It's all the same thing, eh?
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  • Ignorance of the Identity of the One True God is not a valid reason to practice idolatry.
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  #27  
Old 03-23-2007, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by OGIA View Post
Brains, pot. It's all the same thing, eh?
Not sure, but they say smoking pot kills brain cells.
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  #28  
Old 03-23-2007, 10:53 AM
OGIA OGIA is offline


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgcraig View Post
brain cells.
HEY! I got one of them!!
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  • Ignorance of the Identity of the One True God is not a valid reason to practice idolatry.
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  #29  
Old 03-23-2007, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Matthew 28:19-20

So, Jesus told the eleven to do something (baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit). Then he told them to teach them (all nations, i.e., you and me) to do likewise. So, Peter knew better than Jesus how to accomplish (the fulfillment) that particular thing? Peter must have thought, "Hmm. When Jesus said to baptize like that, what He really meant was this. I'll correct His error." Is that correct?
No, he knew the name of the Father, he knew the name of the Son, he knew the name of the Holy Ghost!

Jesus!
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  #30  
Old 03-23-2007, 10:59 AM
"GL" "GL" is offline
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I always use Matthew 28:19 in reference to water baptism. To ignore it does damage to the message. Remember, scripture interprets scripture. To gain a holistic view of the foundational doctrine of water baptism, we should examine all references.

A few notes from a Bible Study I teach on water baptism...

Water baptism in Jesus’ name is the only biblical formula for water baptism.

Scripturally, the name of Jesus should be invoked orally at water baptism. Baptism should be administered “in the name of Jesus.” Let us investigate the biblical record. The Book of Acts describes five examples of baptism in the name of Jesus. No accounts mention any other name or formula in connection with an actual baptism.

* After the outpouring of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost and the first sermon of the New Testament church, Peter commanded baptism, “in the name of Jesus Christ” (Ref. Acts 2:38). Those who accepted this message were baptized in the name of Jesus (Ref. Acts 2:41).
* The Samaritans, having believed Philip’s preaching concerning “the name of Jesus Christ,” were baptized “in the name of the Lord Jesus” (Ref. Acts 8:12, 16).
* After Cornelius and the other Gentiles gathered in his home received the infilling of the Holy Spirit, Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord” (Ref. Acts 10:48). The NIV reads “So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.” The oldest Greek manuscripts also include the name of Jesus in this text.
* Meeting disciples of John the Baptist at Ephesus, he asked them about their baptism. Upon discovering that they had only received John’s baptism, he re-baptized them. This time, they were baptized “in the name of the Lord Jesus.” They then received the gift of the Holy Ghost (Ref. Acts 19:5).
* Acts 22:16 seems to indicate that Paul was baptized in the name of Jesus, for Ananias told him, “Arise and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”
* Additionally, 1 Corinthians indicates that the Gentile believers in Corinth were baptized in Jesus’ name (Ref. 1 Corinthians 1:13).

It seems that the apostolic church always baptized in Jesus’ name. All believers, regardless of their nationalities or heritage, received water baptism in the name of Jesus. According to Hasting’s Dictionary of the Bible, one can draw the following conclusion from historical evidence:

“The original form of words was ‘into the name of Jesus Christ’ or ‘the Lord Jesus.’ Baptism into the name of the trinity was a later development. After the one mention of it, Matthew 28:19, we do not find it again until Justin Martyr, and his formula is not identical to that in the Gospel.”


What about Matthew 28:19?

In Matthew 28:19, Jesus commands His disciples to go and make disciples of all nations, “…baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” It seems that this command is often misunderstood by many in modern Christian circles as being a command to use a specific spoken formula. The apostles obviously understood it to be otherwise, for they consistently administered water baptism in the Name of Jesus. Jesus intended for His present and future audience to understand that His name is God’s New Testament name that into which all nations are to be baptized. Jesus’ command in Matthew 28:19 can be understood in several different ways.

* In the aforementioned scripture, the word “name” is used in the singular rather than in the plural. There is absolutely a singular name to be understood from this passage. This name would incorporate the titles of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Had He intended to describe three separate persons, he would have used the plural form, “names.”
* When we compare the language of Matthew 28:19 to that of other passages containing similar terminology, a consistent interpretation emerges. When an entity is said to be “of” or owned by more than one subject, that entity remains one, shared by the various subjects. Example: “the house of Paul, and of Silas, and of Barnabas” means that Paul, Silas and Barnabas all share the same house.
* Matthew 28:19 points to a single name shared or owned by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Other examples of this type of usage include: Exodus 3:16; Mark 6:3; 15:40; Ephesians 5:5; Colossians 2:2; 2 Timothy 1:7; James 1:1; 1 Peter 4:14 and Revelation 22:1,3.
Matthew 28:19 should be viewed in its immediate context. In verse 18 and 19 Jesus said, “ …All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations…” (KJV). Jesus’ command to go, to teach and to baptize in the singular name was based on His authority. Jesus was basically saying, “Because all power has been given to me, go and teach and baptize in the one name that has all power, the name that belongs to the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost.” It would be rather ridiculous to reason that Jesus was saying, “Because all power has been given to me, go and teach and baptize in three separate names.” Jesus has all power and based the command on the power He possesses. The name which represents the One who has all power was the name in which He intended us to administer water baptism. Verses 18 through 20 record Jesus using the singular pronouns “I” and “me” three times along with the singular word “name.” The immediate context of Matthew 28:19 demands that Jesus is the one name that contains all power. There is no other name that saves (Ref. Acts 4:12).
* All four gospels refer to the great commission. By referencing the writings of the other gospel writers, we are able to see a consistent theme emerging. Jesus is the one name to be used in preaching, believing, repenting, remitting sins, baptizing, and casting out devils (Ref. Mark 16:15-17; Luke 24:47; John 20:31).
* We can gain a basic understanding of Matthew 28:19 by looking to see how this command was carried out in the early church. Peter, who was present during the command of Jesus in Matthew 28:19, commanded baptism to be done in Jesus name (Ref. Acts 2:38; 10:48). Acts 8:16 and 19:5 are actual fulfillments of Matthew 28:19. Both passages say that they were baptized in Jesus’ name. Matthew 28:19 is fulfilled by water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. In fact, prayer healing, casting out devils, preaching, teaching, and even suffering were all done in the name of Jesus (Ref. Acts 3:6,16; 4:10; 5:28, 40-42; 16:18).
* “And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus…” Colossians 3:17


Does it really matter how we are baptized?

Consider the following:

* Like every baptism in the New Testament where a formula is given, we should be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus (Ref. Acts 2:38; 8:16; 10:48; 19:5; 22:16; Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27).
* Believers who had been baptized in a different manner were re-baptized in Jesus’ name (Ref. Acts 19:1-5).
* Salvation is found only through the name of Jesus. It is the only saving name (Ref. Acts 4:12).
* All we do in word and deed should be done in the name of Jesus (Ref. Colossians 3:17).
* Baptism is a burial with Christ (Ref. Romans 6:4; Colossians 2:12). Only Jesus died and was buried on our behalf, so baptism is administered in His name.
* Baptism is a personal identification with Jesus Christ. We are baptized into Christ (Ref. Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27). In baptism we officially identify with Him as we take on His name. The name stands for the person, authority and power of a man. To be baptized into the name of Jesus means to be baptized into His body, His life and membership into His kingdom.
* God makes all His power and authority available to us when we invoke His name in faith (Ref. Acts 3:6,16).
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