Not enough faith? Too much sin?

[RandyWayne]

I'm sorry. Other then a few very specific examples in the Old Testament, I don't see where God intentionally caused anything bad happen to anyone...... Even in the OT, more often than not, He allowed such stuff to happen. (See the book of JOB.)

I see this idea of curses, such as sickness and the death of a loved one, being caused by a lack of faith as being nothing but dumnation and of no redeeming value. The logical extension of such thought is that everyone who DOES suffer from such misfortune must have SINnnnnnn in their lives somewhere. OooohhhhoooooHHHHoooooo!

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I'm sorry. Other then a few very specific examples in the Old Testament, I don't see where God intentionally caused anything bad happen to anyone...... Even in the OT, more often than not, He allowed such stuff to happen. (See the book of JOB.)

I would agree with that. Death, destruction, sickness all came through sin, but not all death, destruction, sickness is caused by sin. The natural course of this earth is the cycle of death unless you enter the life cycle through Christ.

Where I live the air is REALLY bad....lots of lung problems out here in California. Are these problems caused by sin? No, they are caused by the poor air. However, has Christ provided for my healing? Absolutely! However, if I don't lay hold of the promise I won't experience the promise.

I see this idea of curses, such as sickness and the death of a loved one, being caused by a lack of faith as being nothing but dumnation and of no redeeming value.

First of all realize that it is how you see it. Your and my opinion plus $1.75 will get us a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

As illustrated above, sickness is not a cause of a lack of faith, but the inability to receive our healing when Jesus bore it for us is absolutely a lack of faith.

While you consider this dumnation and of no redeeming value only means you prefer a touchy feely empathy doctrine instead of seeing people be free. Unfortunately, this is what church has become, some sort of petting zoo where we stroke each other and rationalize why it's not our fault that we're sick, broke, and dying.

I would rather be straight and figure out why I am not walking in the fullness of God's promises that Jesus purchased on my behalf. I have a right to live in divine freedom, health, and prosperity. Anything short of that is a result of my unwillingness to develop my faith.

The logical extension of such thought is that everyone who DOES suffer from such misfortune must have SINnnnnnn in their lives somewhere. OooohhhhoooooHHHHoooooo!

Absolutely not! I have read many of your post, especially in the stem cell discussion. You are very articulate and have an above average degree of smarts. What a blessing that is until it comes to the matter of faith which defies all logic.

There is nothing logical about faith. You can't pull a text book out and say this is what you have to do. Faith looks at the impossible and reaches into the realm of the provision of heaven and takes hold of the answer....thus all things become possible:


2 Cor 4:18
18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. (KJV)

[RandyWayne]

As illustrated above, sickness is not a cause of a lack of faith, but the inability to receive our healing when Jesus bore it for us is absolutely a lack of faith.

I read what you said, but it comes to this: In the example you cited about the young girl who died of cancer, or the story I posted that started this thread, would you tell either of the parents that their kid is dead because of lack of faith on their part? Ok, even if you didn't TELL them that, in the end, is that what your thinking?

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

In the example you cited about the young girl who died of cancer... would you tell either of the parents that their kid is dead because of lack of faith on their part?

First of all, no! I would not tell a person this. What value is it. Is there anything harder than loosing a child?

What is my thinking? This life is about people not systems. The reality is we all have a level of faith. Nothing right or wrong about this. We are where we are which is a result of the Word (Rom 10:17).

I had a man in my church diagnosed with prostrate cancer. He called me over and told me the three options the doctor gave him and then asked what I would do. My answer, "I can't tell you what I would do because it might kill you."

Why? I don't do doctors! I have nothing against them, I just don't need them so a doctor giving me three options means absolutely nothing to me. Jesus gave me one option...believe and all things are possible. That is a much better option to me.

I asked him how fast he needed to make a decision. Doctor said within a couple of weeks. He's retired so I told him to get in his room, get into the Word, pray and see which option God would have him do. He called me back about a week later with tears in his eyes and said, "I believe God wants me to just trust Him."

My response, "I can agree with that." It's been four years this July, no treatment, no problems, he's a healthy booger! In fact, at 74 he went to India with me last October.

Where ever we are in life the goal is to increase our faith not to damage people with facts. We are to heal the broken hearted, not damage it beyond repair.

There is a reality of life in a saying that I use, "Past failures produce future fears." Something as damaging as the lost of a child can place a person in a position that they can easily turn their back on God. You comfort, love, help, and bring them to a place where they can still trust the Lord.

The problem with this family, was me. I have unflinching faith and my church is strong in faith. I know how to make faith work and I teach strongly on walking by faith. We don't have faith accidents, we continually do the impossible.

They knew better. They just allowed the voice of the doctor to carry more weight than the voice of God in a difficult time in their life. It's logical to do what they did, but "faithless" is clearly defined in the Bible.

[Michael The Disciple]

More information on the family from Wisconsin.

http://www.unleavenedbreadministries...e=pressrelease