Answer to charges that Names were used without consent

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

If we take the rationalizations from the Tulsa Apologists, then these men should be elevated to sainthood...without further thought...they are, in the Apologists' opinion, without fault, without any spot or blemish...they are the ultimate Apostles of today, leading the way to an apostolic utopian fellowsh.., er, organization that will reestablish the values, mores and truths, heretofor...ignored by the unwashed...

But, I fear, the truth lies somewhere short of the Apologists' assessment...it certainly does for the rest of us...po' folks...all us with the human frailties and foibles...

Sainthood?

Without blemish?

A grossly distorted and hyperbolic mischaracterization of the views of a few that just object to the summary crucifixion of good men without a real reason.

[RevBuddy]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Sainthood?

Without blemish?

A grossly distorted and hyperbolic mischaracterization of the views of a few that just object to the summary crucifixion of good men without a real reason.

There you go again...now the comparison is made to the sufferings of Jesus Christ...boy, you go for it, CS!!!

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

There you go again...now the comparison is made to the sufferings of Jesus Christ...boy, you go for it, CS!!!

Wrong again.

No mention of Christ.

Crucifixion is a broad term and happened to a lot of folks besides Him.

Rev, can you spare us the hyperbole and grandiose melodramatics?

[RevBuddy]

NO...

Only when you spare us the eternal, I mean, infernal apologies for the sainted ones...

[Apprehended]

Just how much credibility would anyone give to a statement made by a gang of malcontents? For the sake of balance and practicality, I suspect very little.

There is an old, wisdom filled saying that goes something like this, "Consider the source." Yes, just "consider the source" sounds like good advice to me.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Dora

I just wonder why the WPF guys are considered to be so TRUTHFUL and that they are the ones who are presenting the "FACTS." Do ya think that Bishop Haney and Bro. Mallory and Bro. Bernard are all liars? They obviously have heard firsthand from ministers who had their names added to the WPF list without their permission.

Perhaps these guys didn't expect the WPF to post the list prematurely.

It's just very interesting to see how certain people's loyalties are being revealed. AMAZING. Folks who previously professed unerring allegiance to the UPCI are now ardently defending the actions of the WPF.

If you think they are such great guys, go on and join up. What doth hinder???

I'm sure the fact that NW was defeated in the CA district vote for DS is no big deal. Has nothing to do with his decision to form his own organization. Is he one of the top dogs in the new org? There really can't be any significant correlation there...no way.

So are we questioning the truthfulness of the ministers who stated that they didn't want their names to be included on the list. If the WPF is stating that no ministers names were included on the list who did not give permission for their names to be used, then that makes the "no permission granted Ministers" liars.

It's all over the place. The WPF is whitewashing their actions, presenting this action as if RES.4 was the main issue when it is a known fact, especially in the Western District that these guys have been disgruntled and nit-picking and back biting of their fellow Pentecostal Brethren to the point of questioning their salvation and whether or not their saints are saved.

I'm sorry, but promoting disunity between families and fellow Christians is just WRONG! The Holy Ghost is a UNIFYING FORCE. It is NOT a force used to place a wedge between friendships and families.

Any org that promotes this kind of separation, raises a HUGE red flag to me - KOOL-AID DRINKERS is what comes to mind. Separate yourselves to the point where nobody else is heaven bound. Separate yourselves because you are on a higher holiness plain than your family members or fellow Pentecostal friends. Hogwash!

The future will prove the true motives and agenda of this new org.

What flaky reasoning! My goodness, rather than upset with the WPF leadership, you should be laughing at their blatant duplicity and overjoyed that those lying fascist pigs are gone!

It's no big trick to have observed selective enforcement of the UPC rules lo these past 25 years. The UPC has become mired in bureaucratic inertia, and has allowed men to creep in and set it adrift. Some men said, 'if it drifts past X, I'm jumping off.' Leadership shrugged and grunted. Lots of people say lots of things they don't really men. Why, it's a preaching technique known as hyperbole.

Now these guys do what they said they would do and everybody is freaking out, and trying so hard to find inconsistincies and ethical qualms to amplify.

A year ago you were looking for the same kind of dirt on the UPC. Count me unimpressed.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Dora

I just wonder why the WPF guys are considered to be so TRUTHFUL and that they are the ones who are presenting the "FACTS." Do ya think that Bishop Haney and Bro. Mallory and Bro. Bernard are all liars? They obviously have heard firsthand from ministers who had their names added to the WPF list without their permission.

Perhaps these guys didn't expect the WPF to post the list prematurely.

It's just very interesting to see how certain people's loyalties are being revealed. AMAZING. Folks who previously professed unerring allegiance to the UPCI are now ardently defending the actions of the WPF.

If you think they are such great guys, go on and join up. What doth hinder???

I'm sure the fact that NW was defeated in the CA district vote for DS is no big deal. Has nothing to do with his decision to form his own organization. Is he one of the top dogs in the new org? There really can't be any significant correlation there...no way.

So are we questioning the truthfulness of the ministers who stated that they didn't want their names to be included on the list. If the WPF is stating that no ministers names were included on the list who did not give permission for their names to be used, then that makes the "no permission granted Ministers" liars.

It's all over the place. The WPF is whitewashing their actions, presenting this action as if RES.4 was the main issue when it is a known fact, especially in the Western District that these guys have been disgruntled and nit-picking and back biting of their fellow Pentecostal Brethren to the point of questioning their salvation and whether or not their saints are saved.

I'm sorry, but promoting disunity between families and fellow Christians is just WRONG! The Holy Ghost is a UNIFYING FORCE. It is NOT a force used to place a wedge between friendships and families.

Any org that promotes this kind of separation, raises a HUGE red flag to me - KOOL-AID DRINKERS is what comes to mind. Separate yourselves to the point where nobody else is heaven bound. Separate yourselves because you are on a higher holiness plain than your family members or fellow Pentecostal friends. Hogwash!

The future will prove the true motives and agenda of this new org.

Let me state that Bro Bernard was given info on CAF, and then still posted falsities in his letter. He evidently did not understand what he was told, or already had his mind made up as to what he believed.

I am not going back to find the instance, but when I initially read the letter, I remembered the discourse on CAF between he and others.

[Dora]

So, your conclusion is that Bro. Bernard is a liar.

This is just great.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Dora

So, your conclusion is that Bro. Bernard is a liar.

This is just great.

No, my conclusion is that Bro Bernard never grasped what was being said to him. This was either due to the person posting to him not being clear, or his already having a preconceived view of everything. Either way, he drew some incorrect conclusions. The same thing that seems to be happening on many levels.

[Dora]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

No, my conclusion is that Bro Bernard never grasped what was being said to him. This was either due to the person posting to him not being clear, or his already having a preconceived view of everything. Either way, he drew some incorrect conclusions. The same thing that seems to be happening on many levels.

Do you know this for certain? No disrespect to you, but I find this hard to believe. David Bernard is a BRAIN and very astute in his judgments. I would think long and hard before ascribing this type of irresponsible behavior to him.

Whatever...this whole deal just blows my mind.

While I think it's great that the ultracons have finally taken their marbles and started their own game, it saddens and disturbs me that so many have jumped on their bandwagon.

Gonna leave it alone from here on out.