Demons and the believer - Page 29

Evang.Benincasa · #**281** 08-14-2018, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Ezekial 28:17 "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness."his beauty.

I guess this is where they get the worship leader thing from Ezekial 28:13 "the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created." I know these things are about the king of Tyre but once again it's a parallel and comparison to Satan or aka the devil.

Who says?

Actually we have absolutely no way to prove that. No way. We are told this, take up this lament for the King of Tyre. The rest is poetic language. Another thing, by the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned? So, what was it? Was it a transaction with Adam and Eve? That would of been only one transaction, without money being handed over. But that isn't what the writer is talking about. He is talking about that the fall of the King of Tyre was commerce and greed. The parallel falls on its head when we hit stumps such as these.

1ofthechosen · #**282** 08-14-2018, 06:22 PM

Who is this Zechariah 3:1-2 "And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. [2] And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?"

Is this Satan or just a state of mind,attitude, or outlook?

Esaias · #**283** 08-14-2018, 06:27 PM

1ofthechosen · #**284** 08-14-2018, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Who says?

Actually we have absolutely no way to prove that. No way. We are told this, take up this lament for the King of Tyre. The rest is poetic language. Another thing, by the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned? So, what was it? Was it a transaction with Adam and Eve? That would of been only one transaction, without money being handed over. But that isn't what the writer is talking about. He is talking about that the fall of the King of Tyre was commerce and greed. The parallel falls on its head when we hit stumps such as these.

The whole thing is not a comparison but some of it is. It's talking about the King of Tyre, so some of it is exclusive to him, the other things where they draw the parallel and comparison it's clear. But you are right it is poetic language but that doesn't take away from the fact just like the book of Job, it's based upon real people, beings, and situations.

I mean you do believe the King of Tyre existed right?

Evang.Benincasa · #**285** 08-14-2018, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

The whole thing is not a comparison but some of it is. It's talking about the King of Tyre, so some if it is exclusive to him, the other things where they draw the parallel and comparison it's clear. But you are right it is poetic language but that doesn't take away from the fact just like the book of Job, it's based upon real people, beings, and situations.

I mean you do believe the King of Tyre existed right?

King of Tyre most certainly existed, but we need to keep in mind the poetic language, how the audience at that time understood it. The whole thing is not a comparison but some of it is? Then you would need to explain how the writer is making a comparison with a song leader angel, who was the most beautiful in heaven. Listen, I would be doing the cabbage patch right along everyone if it was Biblically provable. But it is a teaching with no Biblical origin. It is clearly conjecture. The sin and the casting out of the "mountain of God" was trade with foreign countries that made him wealthy, and therefore it caused his problems. Not the garden of Eden, deceiving mankind, made to crawl on the belly and eat the dust. We are specifically told by the writer that what he is about to relay is about the King of Tyre. Some even believe this is a relative of Nebuchadnezzar.

Aquila · #**286** 08-14-2018, 06:52 PM

Here's what I was taught.

First, we must admit that Ezekiel is prophesying against the "King of Tyrus". However some interesting things are said of him that are not true of any man:

Ezekiel 28:11-19 King James Version (KJV)
11 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

None of the following can be said of a mere man. (Take into consideration that God just spent several verses explaining to the Prince of Tyrus that he wasn't a god, now, suddenly, the King was a cherub.):

- He seals up the sum of wisdom and is perfect in beauty.
- He is said to have been in "Eden the garden of God". (Genesis 2)
- He was covered in gems and musical instruments were prepared in his very being, implying his musical nature.
- He is referred to as the "anointed cherub that covereth" a reference going back to the cheubs on the mercy seat of the ark, where God was present, and worship is given before the very presence of God.
- God set him in this place of esteem and honor.
- He dwelt upon the holy mountain of God, and walked among the stones of fire (as Moses on Sinai, implying a face to face relationship in God's presence)
- He was perfect in his ways from the day he was created (not born), until iniquity was "found" in him, indicating he originally had no sin.
- His sin of pride regarding his beauty and brightness causes God to promise to cast him down before kings, in the destruction of the King of Tyrus.

Most, if not all of these things cannot be said of any earthly King. He was never in Eden. He was never created with music in his very being, he was never created and not born, he was never sinless, he was never a holy cherub in the face to face presence of God. These things can only be said of the ancient demonic power abiding within this pagan king.

And so, through this prophecy that identifies this king with the ancient demonic spirit possessing this king, we glean insight on the nature of Satan himself.

berkeley · #**287** 08-14-2018, 06:54 PM

This is comical

Amanah · #**288** 08-14-2018, 06:56 PM

The serpent in the garden was defeated at Calvary and destroyed in the lake of fire in Rev 20?

Aquila · #**289** 08-14-2018, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanah

The serpent in the garden was defeated at Calvary and destroyed in the lake of fire in Rev 20?

Do snakes talk, or was something supernatural taking place in Eden?
Was the king of Tyrus slithering around the garden?

Those are relevant questions.

The questions you asked can be answered in the affirmative regardless of what one believes about Satan or demons.

Amanah · #**290** 08-14-2018, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do snakes talk, or was something supernatural taking place?
Was the king of Tyrus slithering around the garden?

Those are relevant questions.

The questions you asked can be answered in the affirmative regardless of what one believes about Satan or demons.

I'm looking for a point of reference and sense of continuity.