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  #271  
Old 04-07-2011, 05:41 PM
Socialite Socialite is offline
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Re: The poor in America

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Originally Posted by coadie View Post
No bible verses?

You don't seem to have compassion.

Luke 24:46 says to teach Repentence and remissiion of sins.

Stephen was feeding widows while being broken in for ministry.

Yesterday you are talking up gubment.
They are shutting down.

"he that winneth souls is wise"
I haven't said one friggin word about GOVERNMENT. So get off your dead horse!

Speaking of strawmen -- nor did I say, sharing the Gospel, and proclaiming that people should turn to God is not our mission. Read again!! These are not competing goals. They flow out of each other -- but most people use their church's influence in its community like a corporation does to gain PR and bring in profit. Ours is a much more transcendent mandate and duty, and comes out of the grace we've received. We are gracious people because he was gracious to us. That's it. There's no motives tied to it. We've handed out food and prayed for some, witnessed miracles for some, and others who want nothing to do with Jesus, we've loved them just the same.
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  #272  
Old 04-07-2011, 05:41 PM
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Re: The poor in America

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And I think you are trying to minimize, ignore or otherwise explain away these verses:


Deut. 26:5-9. The Egyptians treated us harshly and afflicted us, and imposed hard labor on us. Then we cried to the LORD, the God of our fathers, and the LORD heard our voice and saw our affliction and our toil and our oppression; and the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with great terror and with signs and wonders; and He has brought us to... this land flowing with milk and honey.

Luke 4:16-21. And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read... "The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, because He appointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives, and recovery of sight to the blind, to set free those who are downtrodden, to proclaim the favorable year of the LORD... Today this Scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing."

Ps. 140:12. I know that the LORD will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and justice for the poor.

Is. 25:4. For You have been a defense for the helpless, a defense for the needy in his distress.

Ps. 10:14. The unfortunate commits himself to You; You have been the helper of the orphan... O LORD, You have heard the desire of the humble; You will strengthen their heart, You will incline Your ear to vindicate the orphan and the oppressed.

Is 41:17. The afflicted and needy are seeking water, but there is none, and their tongue is parched with thirst. I, the LORD, will answer them Myself, as the God of Israel I will not forsake them.

Luke 6:20-21. Blessed are you who are poor, for yours in the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you shall be satisfied. Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.

James 2:5. Did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.

Deut. 26:12. When you have finished paying the complete tithe of your increase in the third year, the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the stranger, to the orphan and the widow, that they may eat in your towns, and be satisfied.

Lev. 19:19ff. Now when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field, neither shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. Nor shall you glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the needy and for the stranger. I am the LORD your God.

Prov. 31:8ff. [Commandment to kings.] Open your mouth for the dumb, for the rights of all the unfortunate. Open your mouth, judge righteously, and defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.

Is. 58:66ff. Is this not the fast which I choose, to loosen the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and break every yoke? Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry, and bring the homeless poor into the house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

Jer. 22:3. Do justice and righteousness, and deliver the one who has been robbed from the power of his oppressor. Also do not mistreat or do violence to the stranger, the orphan, or the widow; and do not shed innocent blood in this place.

Luke 12:33. "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys."

Luke 3:11. And [John the Baptist] would answer and say to them, "Let the man with two tunics share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise."

Mt. 5:42. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.
Prov. 22:9 He who is generous will be blessed, for he gives some of his food to the poor.

Jer. 22:16 "Did not your father eat and drink, and do justice and righteousness? Then it was well with him. He pled the cause of the afflicted and needy; then it was well. Is that not what it means to know Me?" declares the LORD.

Deut. 15:10. You shall give generously to [your poor brother], and your heart shall not be grieved when you give to him, because for this thing the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in all your undertakings.

Prov. 19:17. He who is gracious to a poor man lends to the LORD, and He will repay him for his good deed.

Jer. 7:5-7. "For, if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly practice justice between a man and his neighbor, if you do not oppress the alien, the orphan, and the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place, nor walk after other gods to your own ruin, then I will let you dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers forever and ever."

Is. 58:10. "And if you give yourself to the hungry, and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then your light will rise in darkness, and your gloom will become like midday. And the LORD will continually guide you, and satisfy your desire in scorched places, and give strength to your bones; and you will be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water whose waters do not fail."

Luke 14:12-14. "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return, and repayment come to you. But when you give a reception, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, since they do not have the means to repay you; for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."

Luke 12:44. "Sell your possessions and give alms; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Mt. 19:20ff. The young man said to Him, "All these commands I have kept; what am I still lacking?" Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
Ezek. 16:49ff. "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it."

Is. 10:1-3. "Woe to those who enact evil statutes, and to those who continually record unjust decisions, so as to deprive the needy of justice, and rob the poor of My people of their rights... Now what will you do in the day of punishment, and in the devastation which will come from afar?"

Luke 1:52ff. [Mary's Magnificat.] "He has brought down rulers from their thrones, and has exalted those who were hungry. He has filled the hungry with good things; and sent away the rich empty-handed."

Ezek. 22:29,31. "The people of the land have practiced oppression and committed robbery, and they have wronged the poor and needy and have oppressed the sojourner without justice... Thus I have poured out My indignation on them; I have consumed them with the fire of My wrath; their way I have brought upon their heads," declares the Lord GOD.

Jer. 5:28f. "[The wicked] do not plead the cause, the cause of the orphan, that they may prosper; and they do not defend the rights of the poor. Shall I not punish these people?" declares the LORD. "On such a nation as this, shall I not avenge myself?"

James 5:1-6. Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments have become moth-eaten. ...Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and with you have withheld, cries out against you; and the outcry of the harvesters has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.

Luke 6:24. "But woe to you who are rich, for you are receiving your comfort in full."

Luke 16:19-25. "Now there was a certain rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, gaily living in splendor every day. And a certain poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs would come and lick his sores.
Now it came about that the poor man died and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. And in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue; for I am in agony in this flame.'
But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony...'"

Prov. 29:7. The righteous is concerned for the rights of the poor; the wicked does not understand such concern.

1 John 3:17. But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him?

Luke 6:33ff. "And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, in order to receive back the same."

2 Cor 9:7. Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver.

Mt. 6:2-4. "When therefore you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will repay you."
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  #273  
Old 04-07-2011, 05:41 PM
Socialite Socialite is offline
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Re: The poor in America

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And these ones...


Mt. 6:24. "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will hold to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and Money."

1 Tim. 6:10. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang.

Gal. 2:9ff. Recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John... gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we might go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. They only asked us to remember the poor-- the very thing I also was eager to do.

Lev. 19:15. "You shall do no injustice in judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor nor defer to the great, but you are to judge your neighbor fairly."

Acts 2:44. All those who had believed were together, and had all things in common; and they began to sell their property and possessions, and share them with all, as anyone might have need.

Acts 4:32-35. And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them. And with great power the apostles were giving witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all. For there was not a needy person among them, for all who were owners of land or houses would sell them and bring the proceeds of the sales and lay them at the apostles' feet; and they would be distributed to each, as any had need.

Eph. 4:28. Let him who steals steal no longer; but rather let him labor, performing with his own hands what is good, in order that he may have something to share with him who has need.

2 Cor. 8:9. For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.

Prov. 19:17. He who is gracious to a poor man lends to the LORD, and He will repay him for his good deed.

Prov. 14:31. He who oppresses the poor reproaches his Maker, but he who is gracious to the needy honors Him.

Mt. 25:31-46.
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  #274  
Old 04-07-2011, 05:57 PM
coadie coadie is offline
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Re: The poor in America

I have a choice between socialists "works salvation" or winning souls.

We can work as a team. You feed them and I will win the lost.

Quote:
I haven't said one friggin word about GOVERNMENT
Are you still angry instead of compassionate? Friggin? My first language is German. What is that word in English or spanish?
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  #275  
Old 04-07-2011, 06:05 PM
Socialite Socialite is offline
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Re: The poor in America

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Originally Posted by coadie View Post
I have a choice between socialists "works salvation" or winning souls.

We can work as a team. You feed them and I will win the lost.



Are you still angry instead of compassionate? Friggin? My first language is German. What is that word in English or spanish?
No deal. Can't have one without the other. It's not either/or Mr. Binary.

That's an English slang word (similar to "gubment") --- and it indicates a certain level of contempt for our interactions.

Coadie, aside from an occasional chuckle, we're done even trying to converse. I've concluded it's impossible. In all my time on AFF, you've not onced given a direct, coherent, relative response to anything I've offered. So the result is continual talking past each other, and no matter the topic, you are just droning on about Obama, Leftist radicals and socialism. Enjoy your drab little world
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  #276  
Old 04-07-2011, 06:05 PM
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ReformedDave ReformedDave is offline
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Re: The poor in America

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Originally Posted by coadie View Post
I agree. Let the Catholics buy the groceries.
Isn't it kind of hard for someone to listen to a salvation message when there stomach is screaming louder? Maybe if I help with a burger they can pay attention to what I'm saying......
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  #277  
Old 04-07-2011, 06:12 PM
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Re: The poor in America

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Isn't it kind of hard for someone to listen to a salvation message when there stomach is screaming louder? Maybe if I help with a burger they can pay attention to what I'm saying......
DING! DING! DING!

Of course, feeding just so they will here our sales pitch isn't our highest virtue in that moment either.

The plethora of scriptures (only part of them) that I posted, show our admonishment to care for the needy -- yes, even buying them groceries. Why do we do this? Because of the Gospel at work in our hearts... and that sort of grace in action is the greatest picture of Jesus, of His Good News and of His atoning work we could ever put on display. Sure beats a megaphone and a red face with pointing finger.
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  #278  
Old 04-07-2011, 06:16 PM
coadie coadie is offline
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Re: The poor in America

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Isn't it kind of hard for someone to listen to a salvation message when there stomach is screaming louder? Maybe if I help with a burger they can pay attention to what I'm saying......
Good point. I teach bible studies in a large housing development next door to a very large catholic soup kitchen.

We always have some food with us. My pastor told me that we can't give out better sandwiches than the Mormons but we can give them the bread of Life in a wya they can't.

In America, we don't see much starvation.
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  #279  
Old 04-07-2011, 06:17 PM
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Re: The poor in America

Do we care for the poor or evangelize?

Do we love our neighbor or get baptized?

Do we proclaim the Gospel or carry one another's burdens?

Do we declare the Good News or buy groceries?

Do we visit the sick or worship God?

..... WE DO IT ALL!
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  #280  
Old 04-07-2011, 06:17 PM
Socialite Socialite is offline
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Re: The poor in America

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Good point. I teach bible studies in a large housing development next door to a very large catholic soup kitchen.

We always have some food with us. My pastor told me that we can't give out better sandwiches than the Mormons but we can give them the bread of Life in a wya they can't.

In America, we don't see much starvation.
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