If a man wore a dress made ONLY for women, say the fabric is made from burlap and has litte spikes coming out of it to make it more masculine, wouldn't it still "PERTAIN" to a female's garment since it's a Dress ???
HO, when did pants AND a dress both become a woman's garment but only pants are for men ??
Mark, it's hard to answer questions like this because our society says that dresses are for women, but there are other cultures where men wear a dress-like garment and it's completely acceptable in their society. However, if those men were in the US and wore that garment, they would be looked at as dressing strangely, would they not?
To answer your first question, no. It doesn't pertain to women's attire for the reasons you stated anymore than both men and women wearing robes were considered to be wearing attire belonging to the other gender.
As for the second question, women in other cultures have been wearing pants for centuries. America is a culture made up of all cultures. America doesn't have a culture all her own. Never has. You are speaking of white culture in America, but you cannot claim that blacks, Indians, and orientals have the same dress culture that white America does, even though they live in America and may even be just as American as you and I.
Understand that until about 400 years ago, men and women wore the same garment in the Western culture, for the most part. It was men, white European men, who decided to deviate from traditional attire and bifurcate their garments, even causing concern in a society that thought those men were immodest in doing so.
We cannot take what white men and women were wearing in America 100 years ago and state that those dress standards should apply today. If we can do that, why not go further like, 400 years ago and have men wear stockings, powdered wigs and high heels with big buckles, in addition to tunics, robes, and skirts?
Dress culture changes all the time. God isn't concerned with that, just that we look like the gender we were born with. Regardless of the culture, men should look like men, and women like women. Men can look like men if they wear pants, and they can look like men wearing robes. To God, it doesn't matter, only that they look like men.
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Yes, there are people who still look the part but their hearts are far from God. I don't think anyone would argue with that. Dress alone does not do the trick HO. No one believes that.
I've seen people who prophecied, spoke in tongues in Japanese(ha! jk) but lived like the devil. so do we do away with the gifts because some amongst are hyprocrites???
DO you see my point?? do we do away with modesty because some are modest on the outside but their hearts are wicked???
Modesty is yet another issue. According to dress standards from 100 years ago...the same dress standards that many want to go by when it comes to men's and women's apparel, we are immodestly dressed even when in our Sunday best. But do we go back to that era and live by it? Of course not.
Men can be just as immodest in pants as women can be. But if we all, men and women alike, think about what we are wearing and make sure it's appropriate, there isn't a problem.
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Mark, it's hard to answer questions like this because our society says that dresses are for women, but there are other cultures where men wear a dress-like garment and it's completely acceptable in their society. However, if those men were in the US and wore that garment, they would be looked at as dressing strangely, would they not?
To answer your first question, no. It doesn't pertain to women's attire for the reasons you stated anymore than both men and women wearing robes were considered to be wearing attire belonging to the other gender.
As for the second question, women in other cultures have been wearing pants for centuries. America is a culture made up of all cultures. America doesn't have a culture all her own. Never has. You are speaking of white culture in America, but you cannot claim that blacks, Indians, and orientals have the same dress culture that white America does, even though they live in America and may even be just as American as you and I.
Understand that until about 400 years ago, men and women wore the same garment in the Western culture, for the most part. It was men, white European men, who decided to deviate from traditional attire and bifurcate their garments, even causing concern in a society that thought those men were immodest in doing so.
We cannot take what white men and women were wearing in America 100 years ago and state that those dress standards should apply today. If we can do that, why not go further like, 400 years ago and have men wear stockings, powdered wigs and high heels with big buckles, in addition to tunics, robes, and skirts?
Dress culture changes all the time. God isn't concerned with that, just that we look like the gender we were born with. Regardless of the culture, men should look like men, and women like women. Men can look like men if they wear pants, and they can look like men wearing robes. To God, it doesn't matter, only that they look like men.
I have honestly thought about finding our family Tartan and having kilts made of it and wearing them. Only because I get so sick of all the hoopla over this kind of thing. WHO CARES? if a man wears a kilt in this country I will accept him as a man. If he wears pants I will accept him as a man. If a woman wears ladies pants I will accept her a woman and if she wears a dress or skirt I will accept her as a woman. WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING. When are we going to learn this?
If men are going to dress and act like a woman then I am not going to associate with them and the same for a woman who dresses and acts like a man.
I have honestly thought about finding our family Tartan and having kilts made of it and wearing them. Only because I get so sick of all the hoopla over this kind of thing. WHO CARES? if a man wears a kilt in this country I will accept him as a man. If he wears pants I will accept him as a man. If a woman wears ladies pants I will accept her a woman and if she wears a dress or skirt I will accept her as a woman. WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING. When are we going to learn this?
If men are going to dress and act like a woman then I am not going to associate with them and the same for a woman who dresses and acts like a man.
I recently graduated and there were bagpipe players present. They were all men and all were in skirts. There was NO DOUBT that I was looking at men!!
The clothing didn't make them look any more feminine that Marilyn Monroe in a man's suit made her look masculine!
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Mark, it's hard to answer questions like this because our society says that dresses are for women, but there are other cultures where men wear a dress-like garment and it's completely acceptable in their society. However, if those men were in the US and wore that garment, they would be looked at as dressing strangely, would they not?
To answer your first question, no. It doesn't pertain to women's attire for the reasons you stated anymore than both men and women wearing robes were considered to be wearing attire belonging to the other gender.
As for the second question, women in other cultures have been wearing pants for centuries. America is a culture made up of all cultures. America doesn't have a culture all her own. Never has. You are speaking of white culture in America, but you cannot claim that blacks, Indians, and orientals have the same dress culture that white America does, even though they live in America and may even be just as American as you and I.
Understand that until about 400 years ago, men and women wore the same garment in the Western culture, for the most part. It was men, white European men, who decided to deviate from traditional attire and bifurcate their garments, even causing concern in a society that thought those men were immodest in doing so.
We cannot take what white men and women were wearing in America 100 years ago and state that those dress standards should apply today. If we can do that, why not go further like, 400 years ago and have men wear stockings, powdered wigs and high heels with big buckles, in addition to tunics, robes, and skirts?
Dress culture changes all the time. God isn't concerned with that, just that we look like the gender we were born with. Regardless of the culture, men should look like men, and women like women. Men can look like men if they wear pants, and they can look like men wearing robes. To God, it doesn't matter, only that they look like men.
HO, If you've read my statements, I've always said it was according to culture UNLESS culture goes against the word of God. There are those who imigrate here from different parts of the world but after a couple of generations they acclamate to western culture. In our culture, a Man does not wear a dress or skirt ( unless there is a scottish parade or something ceremonial). Let's not get the rest of the world in this or what they did 500 years ago. powered wiges and the revolution are no longer on the table. that's not affecting the church of today or the culture demise that we are seeing. That's where my concern lies.
HO, I've followed the black church for years. I go the Gospel music convention every year. to this day, there dress code rule is " no Pants". They are very traditional on this topic at least at church although some have loosened up, so i don't think this has been a white issue only
I have honestly thought about finding our family Tartan and having kilts made of it and wearing them. Only because I get so sick of all the hoopla over this kind of thing. WHO CARES? if a man wears a kilt in this country I will accept him as a man. If he wears pants I will accept him as a man. If a woman wears ladies pants I will accept her a woman and if she wears a dress or skirt I will accept her as a woman. WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING. When are we going to learn this?
If men are going to dress and act like a woman then I am not going to associate with them and the same for a woman who dresses and acts like a man.
WHY are we still discussing this? but our culture is changing rapidly and it's effecting the church . the church is changing rapidly and it's worthy of discusion Jax
It's all about BALANCE and MODESTY. Pants can be modest or immodest on a man or a woman. It's the condition of the heart that determines what you will wear and if you are modest or not. Your true motives will show in what you wear, and how you present yourself.
I do not think that her suit was a real man's suit. I think that was cut for her because she looked better in it than any man I ever saw.
I love the bagpipes. Did you know that men's kilts may be worn by women today but that was not how it originated. Kilts were strictly a man's garment.
Right. I have seen women and men in the bagpipe bands, wearing the same garment, but I still had no problem identifying who was male and who wasn't. The skirt just didn't make a difference.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
It's all about BALANCE and MODESTY. Pants can be modest or immodest on a man or a woman. It's the condition of the heart that determines what you will wear and if you are modest or not. Your true motives will show in what you wear, and how you present yourself.
Sherri , Can a Man be modest in a skirt ? would you be honest and admit that it would really be acceptable to you if the men in your church started wearing "MODEST" Dresses and the women all wore the pants ?
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