Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

[JoeBandy]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

No OP I know believes that--NOT ONE.

But in my observation this is how it is "presented". I have heard the remark countless time "they didn't really repent" based on the action or lack thereof observed at the alter. IMO repentance is a lifestyle not just one step of a three step salvation process.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

No OP I know believes that--NOT ONE.

***EDITED FOR CLARITY***

Of course they don't believe that! But their presentation of the Gospel lends itself to that kind of thinking. It's this thinking that encourages the paranoia of the, "oh no I must not be saved! I have to get saved all over again" which leads to an incorrect view of their position in Christ. They experience a Holy Ghost blowout of a Sunday night service and therefore they think everything with them A-ok, not because of Blood of the Lamb, but because they hooped, hollered, and snotted all over the altar.

Then sometimes, the saints around that person encourage this "breakthrough" without ever taking the time to at least encourage the "breakthrough guy or girl" to develop a closer and more trusting relationship in the finished Work of Christ and with the saints in the church as "breakthrough guy or girl" goes through their Christian journey depending on "Holy Ghost Highs" to gauge their relationship with God.

After awhile, these people become discouraged as they begin to realize after the 100th Holy Ghost blowout, they're lives haven't changed BUT they have been personally participating in the Holy Ghost blowouts and so they are ashamed of their personal perception of hypocrisy in their own lives and even more discouraged as they question the legitimate Moving of God in their church services and the draw of the Holy Spirit they really are experiencing. They question this because their Gospel Foundation is built on the sinking sand of personal works. Once they realize that the "Holy Ghost High" alone doesn't always lead to actual change their lives IN THAT INSTANT, in the way that they know they need change but are too afraid to admit to others because everyone knows that they have, "The Holy Ghost", deeper questioning and discouragement occurs. They continue in silence about what is going on the inside until Satan has convinced them that EVERYTHING IS A SHAM and then they leave their fellowship and most often after that, all semblance of a life that reflects any form of Christianity. I have seen with my own eyes OP churches leading people to become "twice the devil" they were before they ever became associated with OP's.

Oh and they will find "reasons" to leave, but ultimately, once they realized those "Holy Ghost Highs" is not what will truly change their life, they see THE ENTIRETY OF THEIR EXPERIENCE AS A SHAM, and they place their sense of personal failure to their former fellowship and write them all off as HOLIER THAN THOU HYPOCRITES!

This is why so many churches don't see the value in encouraging the dynamic "Holy Ghost Blowout" kinds of services because MOST people's lives, when they come to Christ, do not cease all sinning IN THAT INSTANT and the "Holy Ghost Blowout" will never replace AUTHENTIC RELATIONSHIPS WITH JESUS CHRIST AND THE BODY OF BELIEVERS IN YOUR FELLOWSHIP! I wish they wouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater though. It is wrong to present to the new believer that they can live a life that honors God without the legitimate Moving of the Holy Spirit in and on and around their lives.

I have seen this over and over and over... Satan uses the same EFFECTIVE tricks. These tricks are effective because the presentation of the Gospel in OP circles depends on "me doing this and me doing this and me doing this in just the right way, and me, and me, and me..." The foundation is being laid wrong and it damages people. Maybe not everyone, but many are damaged and their view of the true Gospel of Christ becomes tainted and of these people, many won't ever darken the doorway of another church for YEARS after going through this-- if ever.

"Twice the devil..."

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by JoeBandy

But in my observation this is how it is "presented". I have heard the remark countless time "they didn't really repent" based on the action or lack thereof observed at the alter. IMO repentance is a lifestyle not just one step of a three step salvation process.

Thanks Joe!

So many then go through seeking those "altar experiences" because that is what they see and are encouraged to do with the implied belief that everything will be alright as soon as I get to the altar to snot on it.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Demons have no hope of salvation.

We are different from the demons and again, the FAITH that saves us is the FAITH that changes us. Demons cannot ever be saved. They are cursed.

Saving faith is more than mental ascent.

Belief does not equate to repentance. Biblical belief is a matter of agreeing in your mind with Truth. Like the devil, a person can believe there is one God, but that does not mean that causes them to be remorseful for the sin they committed against God. But repentance is different, for it a deep regret that leads a sinner to turn from their sinful ways and to walk by faith toward God.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Belief does not equate to repentance. Biblical belief is a matter of agreeing in your mind with Truth. Like the devil, a person can believe there is one God, but that does not mean that causes them to be remorseful for the sin they committed against God. But repentance is different, for it a deep regret that leads a sinner to turn from their sinful ways and to walk by faith toward God.

I will plainly state again that the faith the saves us is the faith that changes us. The Book of James backs me up on this.

Repentance is impossible without God doing the drawing in the first place and God begins His Work of salvation in the new believers life by drawing that new believer to Himself, through the Work of the Holy Spirit in the new believer's life.

True repentance is a process not performed in an instant.

Truly seeing the need to personally repent in response to hearing the Gospel is a supernatural event in and of itself. So is the Power the new believer receives after their faith in Jesus Christ.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by JoeBandy

But in my observation this is how it is "presented". I have heard the remark countless time "they didn't really repent" based on the action or lack thereof observed at the alter. IMO repentance is a lifestyle not just one step of a three step salvation process.

I agree with your last point. But in all fairness, Peter did not say that either when he preached his Day of Pentecost message in Acts 2. He understood that repentance begins your walk of faith, but in no way does it end there. Peter understood that repentance is needed to correct any missteps during the straight and narrow journey. So, of course anyone that did not make such a correction and did stray from said path would in fact not have "really" repented.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I will plainly state again that the faith the saves us is the faith that changes us. The Book of James backs me up on this.

Repentance is impossible without God doing the drawing in the first place and God begins His Work of salvation in the new believers life by drawing that new believer to Himself, through the Work of the Holy Spirit in the new believer's life.

True repentance is a process not performed in an instant.

Truly seeing the need to personally repent in response to hearing the Gospel is a supernatural event in and of itself. So is the Power the new believer receives after their faith in Jesus Christ.

Please, define what you mean when you say "faith."

[Evang.Benincasa]

So many of the X Pentecostals have such a skewed view of One God Pentecostals. My daughter once was reading a random thread and commented, "Dad there is a large amount of haters on that forum. My wife stated that it is bewildering. I just don't know sometimes. Yet most of you only experienced your religion from your own experience. Like other things in your lives you sincerely believe that your own experiences should not only give you credibility but it should be taken as Gospel. Had I an individual tell me that he has been repairing engine cases on antiquitie motorcycles for 30 years. I told him he was doing it wrong for 30 years. An individuals perception is their reality. The Bible is all we have to go through. Anyone thinking they can get in any other way is a thief and a liar. Paul admonish his churches that they all had to be on the same page. He taught there were no different schism. That is a fact. We need to deal with it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Please, define what you mean when you say "faith."

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So many of the X Pentecostals have such a skewed view of One God Pentecostals. My daughter once was reading a random thread and commented, "Dad there is a large amount of haters on that forum. My wife stated that it is bewildering. I just don't know sometimes. Yet most of you only experienced your religion from your own experience. Like other things in your lives you sincerely believe that your own experiences should not only give you credibility but it should be taken as Gospel. Had I an individual tell me that he has been repairing engine cases on antiquitie motorcycles for 30 years. I told him he was doing it wrong for 30 years. An individuals perception is their reality. The Bible is all we have to go through. Anyone thinking they can get in any other way is a thief and a liar. Paul admonish his churches that they all had to be on the same page. He taught there were no different schism. That is a fact. We need to deal with it.

Your criticism is valid but the phenomenon you are describing is germane to all human beings in all sorts of situations. This is indeed how life is for us all. We see and live our lives through our lenses.

I know what I have seen and heard. I know what I have seen in myself and in others. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean that I didn't see it.